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How much VP play is required for "sustaining" comps?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by notfromconcentrate, Feb 26, 2016.

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  1. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Low-Roller

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    Suppose I want to go to Las Vegas for an indefinite amount of time. Assume no restrictions on bankroll. How much video poker would I have to play on a daily basis in order to earn "sustaining" comps, as such so that I have virtually no day-to-day expenses such as room and food?

    Here's what I'm getting at specifically... I'm a table games player - but as we know, table games generally do not make for very good comps. My thought experiment here is to devise a method whereby I would play x amount of hours of video poker at y denomination, benefit from both the room and food comps so that I'm not really "paying" anything to be there, and then spend the rest of my non-VP time either playing tables or going about my merry way.

    My ideal answer to this question would include some sort of scalable metric. For instance, if four hours at $0.25 is the equivalent of one hour at $1.00, that would give me a better sense of what denomination to play as a matter of allocating time throughout the period of a given day. Additionally, any details with regard to restrictions on certain paytables when it comes to getting comps would be useful to know (i.e. certain 100%+ machines I've heard don't offer the same point earning rate).

    If this is completely flawed for whatever reason, I'd really like to know why, just so I have a better sense of this whole "comps" thing.
     
  2. alexb7

    alexb7 MIA

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    $5,000 coin in per day at any denomination will give you a basic room and some food.
     
  3. flysrb

    flysrb Hey Now!

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    Hey Now!
    I agree. At least that's what my Boyd's host told me last week....
     
    HEY NOW! NYE in AC!!!!!!!
    Hey Now! 6 days in Biloxi....plus early Mardi Gras Parades!!!
  4. bjpcyclone

    bjpcyclone High-Roller

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    Typically the casinos will give you around 30% of your theo back in comps. So for every $1,000 in theoretical loss, you'll get $300 back in comps. So its very unlikely, and likely impossible, to "sustain" comps. Maybe you could initially for a short time but not over the long run as the math/hold percentage will always catch up with you.
     
  5. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Perhaps downtown. ARIA and Bellagio say they want $60,000 in coin in per day for a standard room. Sure, less play will get you future offers, but for an indefinite stay with a host comping that is what they state.

    If you are looking at 100%+ games, you are looking off strip. Stations does clearly define certain machines as earning points at a very low rate, an you can bet they are not comping rooms to people who camp out and play those games.

    All of that said, you could probably bounce around downtown for quite a while doing exactly what you describe, spending very little on full pay VP.
     
  6. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    actually this amount is relative to the hotel/casino. If you require $5k coin in to stay at the Boyd properties I would think you would need more to stay at strip properties but since I don't play for comps (and don't have $5k coin in daily) I can't say for sure.
     
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Absolutely. If $5k coin-in/day got me a room at Cosmo on any VP game of my choice, I think I would be grinding the hell out of 98.91% penny deuces. $5k per day seems a lot more appropriate for downtown/off-strip. At some of those places, I wonder if $5k would even be enough.
     
  8. BreakEven

    BreakEven Low-Roller

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    I can't believe this number is right. That's significantly more than comparable hotels.

    I play a fraction of that per trip, and I get 4 days comped @ Cosmo. Yeah, I know it's a different chain, but that's a massive difference. What's the source for this?
     
    Only 2nd trip for year :(
  9. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    How much VP play is required for "sustaining" comps?

    I also get comped better at Cosmo than I ever did when I was primarily MGM. But what he may mean is being able to stay without a marketing offer by just calling up a host and saying hey I'd like a room next week. For Cosmo's marketing offer it seems like it kicks in with 2 mid week nights at around $6k coin in per day. I've gotten 2 anytime and 4 anytime with a little more coin in plus some table play (rated at $40-ish a hand).

    That said, I hardly ever go time with out an offer from Cosmo. Right after a trip I get an email with a new offer based on my most recent play.
     
  10. ajp

    ajp High-Roller

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    $60,000 per day seems ridiculous, at CET $50,000 in one day at video poker will earn you diamond status. I would imagine the number is closer to $10,000 or $15,000 per day.
     
  11. NickPapageorgio

    NickPapageorgio OG of the Sal Sagev Hotel

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    Agreed. Hosts will often quote ridiculous things for shock value. In 2014, I was told 45-50k per day at Mirage by a host when he refused to comp off a few small F&B charges. He said that at my current level of play I likely wouldn't continue to get offers. Since then, its been a junior suite, $450 freeplay and $250 F&B average offers from Mirage.

    Likewise, 5k coin-in isn't going to get you back on the strip, unless you're just looking for $69 room offers at TI. You'll probably get comped lower tier CET rooms because they throw out room offers to anyone with a pulse.

    Nick:beer:
     
  12. Multifarious5

    Multifarious5 High-Roller

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    Hi there, yes, table games generate low comps, but VP also is MUCH lower than standard slots. (Because you keep more of your money on VP, and they know this.) If you're looking at slots/vp to maintain comps, avoid VP and go for standard slots. Just target low - moderate variable machines (e.g. no megabucks, willy wonka, etc). Quick Hits old school ($1.50 max bet), Quick Hits "Black Velvet," and Wonder Woman Gold are GREAT for this, and fun. Don't chase comps though or play if you don't like them, but if you're doing it for comps, regular slots are more generous with comps more than VP. Good luck and enjoy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    Sooooo far away still...
    Cosmo, always our favorite part of our trip!
  13. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Whatever play a host quotes you for a standard room, cut it in half. Anybody's who's been going a while and gets marketing offers can tell you this.

    However, a lengthy stay is different because even if you know the real number is X, no casino will comp upfront longer than a certain number of days and say "as long as you play $X/day, you're good, otherwise we'll charge you at the end." So you're at their mercy on the back end.

    If you have player accounts with good comp availability at several chains, it's conceivable that you could string together quite a long comped stay by bouncing from chain to chain to chain every 3 - 5 days, making all the reservations in advance, so even if you have a severe drawdown during the trip, and have to reduce your daily play, you're already booked.
     
  14. bjpcyclone

    bjpcyclone High-Roller

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    Add me to the group that doesn't buy the $60k number. That's nearly impossible at the dollar level (you'd have to play around 20 hrs per day at 600 hands per hour!).
     
  15. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I think Chuck's number is right. $60K is certainly high, cut it in half, $30K is about right.
    I don't think you can have it for less than $20K coin-in at Aria or Bellagio.
     
  16. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    Back to the OP's question, if you are specifically looking for 100%+ machines, you should forget about comps.
    Not only those machines have reduced points, the casinos offering those games are not stupid.
    If you only play on those, they know exactly what you are doing.
     
  17. Champster1

    Champster1 High-Roller

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    Add me too that group also. Thank GOD CET doesn't require anything close to that for me. Stuff like that makes Diamond ( and its perks) feel like a STEAL!
     
    March Madness...here I come !!
  18. Champster1

    Champster1 High-Roller

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    I guess I wont be stopping in there (Aria/Bellagio) during march madness!
     
    March Madness...here I come !!
  19. DRich2

    DRich2 Tourist

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    Marketing comps are usually set at a much lower rate than comps a host gives. At the big properties they have more bigger players and that is who the hosts want to take care of. A player that plays $30,000 coin in on video poker is only generating about $300 in theo per day. Probably not enough to interest a host and give away $150 rooms. If that same player is playing penny slots he is generating about $3600 in theo. The host will help you in that scenario.
     
  20. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    You have to take a lot of things into consideration...however, I THINK at the 30-day mark, they are required by law to kick you out of the room (It has to do with rental unit vs hotel).
    In MOST cases, it'd probably be cheaper to just PAY for things, then doing what you're thinking...
    HOWEVER, if you had a bankroll, say of $1M dollars and we're really interested in this. Then I definitely wouldn't choose Aria or Bellagio...maybe like Bally's or something middle-of-the-road...but at Bally's the best video poker is 98% EV, and IIRC, they give you 4% theo on those machines...So, let's put this into figurative terms...If you alotted yourself $100 a day in food comps, and a Bally room comp is probably ~$60 a day (unless it's like CES or some other MAJOR convention) So allow yourself $300 worth of back-end comps per day. You'd probably be best to play $25,000 coin-in per day. Your EV would be -$500 (i.e.: you'd be losing $500 a day, to earn ~$300 a day in comps)
    In the end, it's just not worth it.
    There ARE plays that are worth it, but they're not on the strip, and a lot of the EV hangs in the mailers...
     
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