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How is Excalibur doing business-wise in comparison to Circus Circus?

Discussion in 'LV Strip Hotels & Casinos' started by sco5123, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. sco5123

    sco5123 VIP Whale

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    Are they any stats out there on the revenue that Excalibur generates in comparison to Circus Circus? CC is so low on the totem pole of Mlife that they do not even include them on their website (although there is probably some bureaucratic (sp) thing I do not get about this).

    Circus Circus is always so packed, so I would think that they are doing better than Excalibur but I was curious about the numbers.
     
  2. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Revenue vs profit are totally different things.

    Then there is short term vs long term projections.

    Overall, these two properties may be after a different market, and different marketing structure.

    And, what you would not see on balance sheets, if they were to share them, is the impact and cost of MGM corporate on each individual property.
     
  3. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Circus Circus does pretty good because they are cheap and across the street from the convention center.

    I doubt Excalibur does that bad either: its had some of the highest occupancy rates in the Las Vegas area through the last few years, and thats despite them being stingy on the room comps, and when there is something big going on at MGM Grand they will usually get very busy before and after.
     
  4. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    They may have kept CC out of MLife to maintain the gaming license it had from before the merger.
     
  5. travelfiend

    travelfiend High-Roller

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    The researcher in me thought this would be fun to look up. Didn't even think it would be that hard to find but alas, I have failed.

    I did about an hour searching the Nevada Gaming Board reports and UNLV Center for Gaming Research, but all I could find was revenue reports by city and locations (strip, downtown) and by game type.

    I did find a Wikipedia article that showed revenues from 2009, with Excalibur at 265 million and CC at 200 million. (it is Wikipedia, sooo???)
    (oh yeah, those numbers are in millions)
    MGM Casino # Revenue from 2009
    Bellagio $1,064,729
    MGM Grand LV $976,261
    Mandalay Bay $725,129
    The Mirage $624,132
    Luxor $344,722
    Excalibur $265,076
    NYNY $250,055
    Monte Carlo $206,377
    Circus Circus $200,385
    Total $4,656,866
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  6. Fraggle

    Fraggle Low-Roller

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    I wouldn't trust those numbers so much, but I do know that the Monte Carlo is doing extremely badly, so much so that in 2009 they had a very large strategy session held there with a bunch of big wigs coming down to view the property and try and figure out ways to boost its appeal.. they ran alot of surveys during that time, and we were selected for a more detailed survey (most likely because we were the only ones in the place less than 50). They comp'd our two nights there for our troubles and we actually saw that a few of the things we noted about the place were addressed in future years (placement of some of the machines, some dingy restaurant that used to be to the right of the main doors, etc). I don't know if they ever turned it around, but I doubt it.. I still would only recommend the place to my grandparents.
     
  7. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    It's different now. It's certainly not PH or Cosmo, but it's younger than it was back in 2009.
     
  8. pokerbucketlist

    pokerbucketlist Low-Roller

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    I find it hard to believe that Excalibur had higher gaming than nyny. Anyone else find that hard to believe?
     
  9. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    The revenue quoted, if accurate, includes all revenue including hotel, food, etc. Excalibur has 1,000 more rooms to sell, but they earn less per room than MC.

    Indeed. Below are operating profits by casino and year from the 2011 Annual Report (the most recent available on their website):

    2011; 2010; 2009

    Bellagio $203M; $174M; $157M.
    MGM Grand - Detroit Motor City $123M; $115M; $90M.
    MGM Macau $115M; $130M; $25M.
    Mandalay Bay $84M; $30M; $66M.
    MGM Grand - Las Vegas $72M; $84M; $123M.
    New York New York $64M; $42M; $45M.
    Excalibur $44M; $40M; $48M.
    The Mirage $41M; $36M; $75M.
    Luxor $40M; $19M; $38M.
    Monte Carlo $35M; $5M; $16M.
    Circus Circus $4M; ($5M Loss); $4M.
    City Center ($56M Loss; $254M Loss; $261M Loss)
     
  10. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I don't find it shocking at all that Excal brings in more than NYNY. It might not have the highest rollers, but the tables in the evening are usually very full. I'd also like to see numbers on casino floor space. Excal seems like it has a lot more slot machines than NYNY.


    A quick note on Monte Carlo. I'm not a fan of how narrow the casino feels. It feels like a big hallway where every other MGM property has a few points where they open up. The front of the casino just doesn't feel inviting at all. Just a large open space where noone seemed to have any idea on what to do with it. Move the bar there about 100ft into the casino and fill that area with slots/tables and I'd like it a lot more.
     
  11. sco5123

    sco5123 VIP Whale

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    some thing is just off about monte carlo to me, and I think this starting to get around to it. I also think the casino is kind of dark for my liking.
     
  12. sco5123

    sco5123 VIP Whale

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    Thanks for all the information everyone!!

    viva las vegas, so for a few years excalibur was making way more profit than circus circus. That is interesting.

    The losses for city center are so sad.
     
  13. sco5123

    sco5123 VIP Whale

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    Cool. I see the distinction now!
     
  14. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Steve Wynn / Circus Circus designed Monte Carlo to be bright and elegant. They had bright crystal chandeliers, they offered European style roulette (single wheel, though no en prison).

    After Wynn sold the casino MGM, they remodeled the inside with the "modern bland" scheme, also used to ruin the Mirage and de-theme Luxor. They also partitioned the sides to build offshoot restaurants, the high limit room, etc..

    The size of City Center makes MC look insignificant, like an afterthought or the servant quarters for City Center. The rooms really need to be updated, though they are likely 3rd or 4th on the MGM room make-over to do list, behind NYNY, Mandalay Bay and Luxor.

    Not sure how their shows or Diablo's fit in a "Monte Carlo" theme.
     
  15. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    That is the problem. Post De-theming, MGM, Luxor, Monte Carlo, and Mirage all have the same decor and theme--boring. They all used to be distinct and interesting.
     
  16. AllieWhitt

    AllieWhitt Tourist

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    I sure miss the Stardust. I still love the name. It just screams "Vegas" to me. Wish they would build a new one and name it the Stardust again, but I know this will never be.

    RIP Stardust....you are truly missed. :beer:

    AllieWhitt
     
  17. dfalk

    dfalk VIP Whale

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    Wikipedia lists Excal at 100,000 sq ft of gaming and NYNY at 84,000
     
  18. Majik9

    Majik9 Tourist

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    Call me old, but I like M.C. nowadays. It's much cheaper than Aria, but its connected to Aria and their poker room I love, heck it can be a shorter walk than a Aria room.

    Also, the beds are very comfy.
     
  19. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    When was the last time you were in the rooms? I think a lot of them have been updated.

    Diablo's isn't really in the MC...it's out front and attached, but I never even see it from inside the hotel.

    I kind of like the layout of the casino -- I don't get lost like I do at MGM. What I don't like about it is the complete lack of bartop video poker. There's the one right in front of the sportsbook that sucks, but other than that, nothing.
     
  20. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    I stayed in Nov 2009. MGM did a good job with the room updates at Mirage, TI (later sold). The room I stayed in was not updated. Things were beat up a bit. I hope they have updated the rooms since my stay.

    I awoke on Sunday morning to birds fighting over discarded McDonalds which somehow was dumped (from God knows where - perhaps the windows open) onto my window ledge. It is my lasting memory of the MC and my stay there. My 10 day trip continued to comped rooms at the Rio and The Hotel, which I liked.

    I stayed on a comp offer, but ended up playing mostly at MGM due to the slow cocktail waitress at the machines (table service appeared quicker). It's not as large as MGM, but I can find better BJ rules, sigma derby, lion slots and more to do at MGM. I also didn't like the dining options at MC vs. other MGM resorts.
     

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