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Table Games Hopping 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, or 10 as a hedge against a $300 lay.

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by hornhighaces, Aug 8, 2012.

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  1. hornhighaces

    hornhighaces Newbie

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    I am an experienced craps player and i have a question...

    My favorite bet to make is to lay the 5 or 9 on the come out roll for $300. So for example:
    Come out roll.
    I say , "Lay the 5 for $300" (costs $10 in juice)
    If the shooter rolls a 7 on come out, I win $200 plus get my $300 back.

    So what I am asking, what is a correct bet to make on the "hopping 5" to effectively hedge the shooter establishing a 5 as the point on the come out roll, while I lay the 5 for $300?

    The last time i was at a casino, some country bumpkin KILLED me. He knocked each of my 5 or 9's off on the come out everytime. It was almost supernatural the way I got destroyed.

    Please let me know asap. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Vinegarjoe

    Vinegarjoe Tourist

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    Hornhighaces,

    The one roll hop bets pay 15 to 1. In order to "hedge" your $300.00 lay on the 5 you would need to hop the 5's for $22.00 each.

    The $22.00 hopping 5's ( total cost of bet being $44.00) would pay $330.00 thus covering your lay bet plus the juice and giving you $20.00 back.

    Where this gets expensive if the shooter throws craps numbers rather than that natural you are looking for.

    Regards,

    Vinegarjoe
     
  3. hornhighaces

    hornhighaces Newbie

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    Thanks Vinegar Joe. Another question.
    What would be the hopping hedge on the 4 and 6 on a $300 lay on the comeout?
     
  4. Vinegarjoe

    Vinegarjoe Tourist

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    hornhighaces,

    The hard way hops pay 30 to 1 ( 4,6,8,10) all other hop bets of box numbers pay 15 to 1.

    For the 6, as there are 3 ways to make a 6 ( 4-2, 5-1, 3-3) the hedge would cost you $55.00 per roll ( hop bets being one roll bets) so you would hop the "Easy" sixes ( 4-2, 5-1) @ $22.00 each and the hard six @ $11.00. Due to the different odds ( 15 t0 1 and 30 to 1) the hop bet would pay the same, $330.00, which again covers your $300.00 lay and the juice, plus a gain of $20.00.

    For the 4, the hop bet would cost you $33.00 ( $22.00 on the 3-1, and $11.00 on the 2-2) which would (again) pay $330.00, covering your lay bet and the juice and giving you $20.00

    If you are going to lay numbers on the come out, I would lay the 4 and 10, as (statistically) the 4 and 10 are the hardest numbers to make, however, we all know that the dice have no eyes or brains and someone could get the dice and pound the 4's and 10's.

    Some dice players consider the come out roll as just another roll and want to get in on the action immediately, while others want to see what point is set first before taking action ( with or against the shooter).

    If your bankroll can support dark side bets starting with the come out roll, go for it, but be prepared for the variances that occur. I find craps to be a fun game to play if things are going your way, but an incredible bankroll drainer if the opposite is true.

    Good luck

    Vinegarjoe
     
  5. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I think that the common thought is that all of your bets have an advantage in the house's favor. The lay bets have a lot lower house advantage than the hop bets. So if you try to hedge your best bets with 20% HA bets then you are just going to be costing yourself a lot of money.

    JK
     
    First Trip 2017
  6. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    My attitude is that if I'm going to make a bet, why would I also want to make a bet that I lose? The edge on the hop bets is astronomical (compared to the pass line or the lay), and you DO have to suffer that big disadvantage every time you make that bet.

    Hedging is for wimps! :poke: :thumbsup:
     
  7. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    HAHA!!!! I feel the same way, though it is completely based on my extremely complex system of mojo and superstition. I always want more weight on what I'm shooting for . . .

    If point is 6, I'll also put money on hard six.
    On the come out roll, I'll take a $5 YO, but I sure ain't going to ask for a "C&E" (Craps and 11) because that's putting weight on a crap out.

    I'll sometimes put money in the field, but ONLY if those are already the numbers I'm hunting. If point is 4 and I also placed a 10, yeah, I'll throw some money in the field. But if I'm on 6 and 8, then I'm not going to put money in the field and have mojos working against each other.
     
  8. hornhighaces

    hornhighaces Newbie

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    Thanks Joe for the showing me how.
    I figured to be able to fade a $44 1 time bet like that, I would need a substantial bankroll. I think $20,000 would be enough.
    So this is what happened:
    I bought in with a bankroll of $3500. I got up to $4300.
    I was feeling real good, cocktail waitress was giving me the "eye" (I could have hooked up with her after her shift ended. Blah blah blah, you know the routine with that)
    So this COUNTRY bumpkin gets on the table. He starts talking to me, asking me "What is that bet right there?" (the $310 Lay the 5).
    I ignored him.
    So he gets the dice on the comeout roll and BAMM, knocks off my Lay on the 5 for $310.
    So then I come right back with a $320 across including the point.
    This ass immediately 7's out. $310 plus $320 loss.
    So then I wait until the dice cycle around again.
    I catch 3 come out 7's in a row on the shooter right before me. $200*3 win.
    I am excited.
    Then BUMPKIN gets the dice again, eyeballing my money the whole time, not having a clue as to what I am betting.
    I lay the 9. BAMMM, knocks off my 9.
    I come right back, $320 across including the point. Immediately 7's out.
    This guy would not leave the table to save my life.
    After I was down to my last $50, THEN he wants to leave.
    So anyway, I am building my bankroll back up to $20,000. I will employ this $44 hop bet as a hedge to counter some of the risk.
    I figure I will give the $310 Lay and the $44 hop bet (1) chance per shooter. So if they DO hit my Lay on the comeout, the risk will be covered.
    Thanks SOOOOOOO much man!
    By the way, I play at Bellagio and M Resort.
     
  9. hornhighaces

    hornhighaces Newbie

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    Vinegar Joe,

    (Up all night) So the more I think about it, the $310 Lay 5 or 9 with a $44 hop IS a bad bet.
    I would do better just to wait until the point is established THEN laying it for whatever amount.
    $44 a pop can add up quickly. I would be better off putting down $10 on the firebet and take my chances there.

    Thanks so much for your advice.

    PS. Isnt it funny how craps IS the perfect game? No matter what you bet, no matter what exotic hedge we try to think of, the player is always at a disadvantage, no matter how miniscule.
     
  10. pass line man

    pass line man Low-Roller

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    From Michael Shackleford, the Wizard of Odd's

    "Thou shalt not hedge"

    so let it be written........so let it be done
     
  11. hornhighaces

    hornhighaces Newbie

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    Hahahhahaahahahahha. =)) Good one!
     
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