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Table Games Holding a Pai Gow hand hostage?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by airball1996, May 19, 2015.

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  1. airball1996

    airball1996 High-Roller

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    So I'm wondering what the rule is in a particularly rare (potential) occurrence in pai gow.

    On my last trip, a fellow at my table stated this happened to him, and now there are rules in place just for this particular situation as a result of this hand.

    The situation was that a player had drawn some obscenely high paying bonus hand (we'll say 7 card straight flush for our example) but neglected to bet the bonus. Before setting her cards, she said she wanted $500 from each other player at the table who had bet the bonus and had the envy. Some players refused to cave to her bribe (despite having a $5,000 bonus coming their way), and she ended up mucking the hand.

    What does the casino do in this spot? Assuming she showed proof she was holding the goods, what happens after the muck? Is the hand dead once she tosses it? The player relaying the story to me vividly told us the NGC was called out and reviewed tape, made reports, etc. In the end, it sounds like the hand was ruled dead.
     
  2. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Some players refused to cave? If a player or two agreed why didn't she play it?
     
  3. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I don't know how to play PaiGow so I don't quite understand the payouts BUT with that being said I wouldn't pay her on principle.
     
  4. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    I might have accidentally spilled my beer on her...after I pissed in the bottle.
     
  5. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    "Some players?" So are you saying some did pay and she still mucked her cards?
     
  6. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Seriously... I never play the bonus. Well sometimes I do with the odd $1 from commission. But never the envy level.

    Why would she want the Casino to have the money? Just dumb. If karma is real it will come back to her.

    Well karma is real...she is a stripper at my local strip club! I will tell her next time!
     
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  7. alexanbo

    alexanbo High-Roller

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    I dunno I think this is sort of an urban legend, I've heard the same story from multiple people.

    There's also a variation involving bad beat jackpots in poker.
     
  8. airball1996

    airball1996 High-Roller

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    The player (Michael) who was telling me this, told me most people didn't have an extra $500 sitting in front of them at that exact moment. He was offering to run to the ATM to get the money he needed, but she tossed the hand anyway. Guess she didn't get enough people willing to "pay her off."

     
  9. airball1996

    airball1996 High-Roller

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    I kinda thought the same thing. This is the same dude from my last TR who wanted me to be his drug smuggling middle man for the Midwest. He had plenty of stories, half (at least) of which I thought were total BS. Interesting to hear him talk though. :)

     
  10. Kuch1000

    Kuch1000 Low-Roller

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    Agree that mucking her hand is ridiculous as it gave the house the money. At a minimum, play it, and I would be willing to venture that a couple players at the table would empathize with her not betting the bonus and tip her something. I would begrudingly pay the bribe for my own benefit if she showed me proof of what she had.
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    It must be true.

    It happened to my cousin's, best friend's, hair dresser's, psychic mother's twin's fairy god mother.
     
  12. airball1996

    airball1996 High-Roller

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    "It happened at Caesars. I was there!"

    :rolleyes2:

     
  13. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    That's a LIE!!! Your cousin's, best friend's, hair dresser's, psychic mother, does not have a twin!
     
  14. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    Did Caesar really live there?
     
  15. voltron12

    voltron12 Low-Roller

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    The other part of the story that doesn't ring true. If they have any kind of bonus pay, they have a winning hand or push at worse. If they muck their hand they are not only not getting a tip or payment from anyone else, they are losing their bet. Which would have been a win or push. Who in their right mind would lose money just to screw the rest of the people at the table that they do not know. Even at a 25 min table, that is costing someone close to 50.00 if its a win(instead of winning 23.75 losing 25.00) and 25.00 if it is a push. I don't buy it.
     
  16. RedRiverRose

    RedRiverRose Low-Roller

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    This is a good question and I'm sure some non bonus players have folded hands that would pay the envy some where in Pai Gow history and probably did not tell anyone what they had since they weren't getting paid. With that said a suggestion would be that casinos implement a rule that all folded hands of non bonus players are checked before burning the cards. This will probably never happen but it would solve the potential problem.

    Locally (in the past) one of the casino rules for Carribean Stud was that all folded hands were checked by the dealer before burning the cards to make sure someone did not accidently throw away a winning hand. They did this as long as they had the game (they got rid of it a few years ago). We all assume if you played that you knew your poker hands but I did see a couple full houses thrown away over the years.

    If this rule were to become a Pai Gow rule it would solve the issue. I can hear the delay of game complaints already and the complaints from folks to don't want their awful hands shown but I think it's only fair since an envy bonus is in play.

    It will be interesting to see if this ever comes up.
     
  17. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Yes
     
  18. alexanbo

    alexanbo High-Roller

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    A lot of casinos use the card readers these days so implementing a check probably wouldn't be that hard if the casino cared.

    7 card straight flush would most times be a push, unless it was a royal straight flush...
     
  19. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    I never play bonus and never muck... two reasons... 1 I want the game to go as slow as possible for drinking purposes... 2. I am often too stupid or drunk and forget what I had!
     
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  20. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    The same people who belittle dark side players for "betting against" them.
     
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