1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games High Limit Baccarat Etiquette

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jpete1966, Jun 18, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jpete1966

    jpete1966 Tourist

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Question for the HL baccarat players here about proper etiquette at the HL tables. What are things to do/not do do?

    For Example:

    As most have markers at these tables is it improper to splash a bunch of cash down that stops the game? Should you go to the cage and buy chips and then bring them to the table?

    Is it o.k. to watch the board for a while before sitting down or should you take a seat so the players don't feel like you're hovering over them watching them play?

    If someone has a substantial bet out there(esp. if it is the last of their chips) should you wait until the next hand if your bet is not out there yet or if your small $100 bet is out there but you are going against the whole table?

    What is considered bad luck etc... in asian cultures and should be avoided at the tables? I'll give you an example. My last trip I was at the Mandalay Bay playing right before my flight and the wife comes over to see if I'm ready to go. The pit boss says she can sit down since there are only two other players at the table. She sits down, looks at the table and happens to be sitting in #5. She then asks me "Why isn't there a 4 on the table?":eek:
    This was my last bet of the trip and had all my winnigs from the table. I just mumbled that it's bad luck. The asian lady to my left pulled her bets off the table. The asian getleman to my right who was sitting out a lot of hands puts a stack equal to mine on Player(I was on Banker). Player 2 Banker 7. Player pulls a 6 of course to beat me 8-7(which is also a Panda win for those who have played this side bet). The asian gentleman then tells me to make sure I have a safe flight/trip home. If I ever doubted how superstitious asian players were this clarified it for me.

    Anything else you would like to share would be helpful. I get it's my $$ and I can do what I want, If they don't like it screw 'em etc... But I respect the amount of $$ being played as well as the players risking that much and want to feel comfortable playing my $100 chips.
     
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    i find it annoying when somebody sits down and puts $10k or more in cash on the table and it stops the game for 10 minutes. for that much go to the cage and have them count it with their machine and give you the chips in 10 seconds. but a thousand or 2 in cash isn't an issue.

    sure stand around and watch all you want provided you're 3-4 feet back from the table so you're not standing right behind somebody. there's always people standing around watching. but if you want to play, there's nothing wrong with sitting down with some chips and then watching from a chair for a little while. that's especially important if there's only 1 or 2 seats open.

    as long as you keep to yourself and don't rub it in the other players' faces when you beat them, you can always bet against anyone. a lot of asian players won't bet against someone else that they know. if you are talking to the other players while you play and getting to know them a bit, you may choose not to play against one or more of them or even "support" a bigger player with a small bet even when you like the other side. this is very common. especially if a player is all in, then it's even more common.

    i'm usually the high bettor at my table and personally i don't like it when a guy sits down and is constantly betting $100 against me every hand. especially if the entire rest of the table is betting together. once or twice isn't a big deal, but every hand gets really annoying. but there's nothing against it and it's certainly his right to bet however he wants. thankfully these people are usually underfunded and go broke and leave fairly quickly.

    personally i like tables where camraderie develops among the players and everyone is playing together, etc. i find that those are the times when there's a lot more winning also. so i do everything i can to help develop that camraderie as far as keeping to myself, being friendly to the other players, congratulating them on their wins, etc. since i'm not asian it makes me a bit of an outsider at first, but i've found the asian players to be friendly when you are friendly to them and respect their traditions and customs.

    one thing is never touch an asian on the shoulder like a pat on the back type of thing. that's ok in america, but that's very bad ettiquete for asians.
     
  3. Cracker

    Cracker Tourist

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    I'm waiting for the day when visitors to this country start respecting our traditions and way of life instead of expecting us to know and abide by theirs.
     
  4. jpete1966

    jpete1966 Tourist

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    79
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Yeah but baccarat is mainly an asian game with someone like Shifter or I being the exception. Being that Las Vegas is really an international destination and being that I am in the very small minority at the table I have no problem respecting their customs or beliefs. If it was a craps or BJ table I could care less but if I'm one of two non-asian players in the room and people next to me have $40,000 bet while I have $100 I would at least like to be courteous to the other players. I would expect the same if the roles were reversed.
     
  5. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2010
    Messages:
    10,096
    Location:
    At the tables
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    the bac table is like Chinatown. you don't run in there and tell everyone you're in America, you should follow our traditions. it's only polite to be respectful when you're the outsider.
     
  6. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,714
    Location:
    Austin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    67
    So when I go to Macau to play Texas Hold'em, I'm going to be okay slapping all the players on the back as I wear my white suit?

    I've never thought about this before this thread.
     
  7. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    551
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    If and when you are always the small bettor, always be the one to lay down the first bet. When there are big players around you and say everyone puts on Player don't be that ass and lay it down on Banker afterwards. You may slide for two or three bets but after that resentment builds and if this keeps going the whales get agitated and next thing you know you are "nicely" asked to leave the table by the supervisor(s). I saw it happen a few times and it sucks but in Vegas like every where else, cash rules all.

    When you know what you are doing and laid down that first bet and win in most of them, most folks (if they put their ego away) are going to follow suit and then that is where you build camaraderie. Which is something that you want really which makes the game and winning that much more enjoyable. If and when everyone wins in unison, major plus.

    Folks can disagree but that is coming from my experiences since I am a flat betting player which will have the potential to ruffle a few feathers.
     
  8. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,073
    Location:
    Gwynedd Valley, PA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    28
    Funny, I thought baccarat was an Italian-French game :poke:

    On the issue of Baccarat players and their customs, I find respect to be [or rather, should be] a two way street - but unfortunately I think when it comes to baccarat, rudeness is far too common, and sadly, tolerated. In fact, I would go so far as to say that I think it is this culture of "play by our customs & superstitions or we will treat you rudely" that persists in the baccarat pit which goes a long way towards explaining why baccarat has failed to really make substantial inroads with non-Asian players in this country. After all, when you play Chemin de Fer in Europe, it is traditionally an "adversarial" game where some bet player, some bet banker - after all that is traditionally what determined who got to handle the cards [biggest player bet & biggest banker bet - the game, as originally developed, was never meant to have all the players betting on one side or the other [unlike, say, blackjack, where everyone is supposed to be playing against the dealer, for example]

    Now, I'm never one to be openly celebratory about my own winning - or openly critical of another's play - at any game [baccarat, blackjack, roulette, etc], since I look at it as no matter what game you're playing, odds are if you're winning someone else at the table is losing - so I don't like to gloat when I'm winning or be a little bitch when I'm losing; I'm also the type of person who doesn't think it is appropriate to comment on anyone else's playing style at any game period, because I consider that to be rude. Just because you have customs or superstitions [be you Asian or otherwise] doesn't, in my mind, give you a license to be rude - especially if the other player is not being rude or gloating when they win a bet that went their way & not yours.

    I play baccarat by a set system & will not break from it based upon what the rest of the table is doing - and more often than not, other players will observe the way I'm playing & be intrigued with it , ask me about it, and possibly even start playing that way for at least a few hands to see if they have any luck at it [especially if I'm winning]. For the most part, if they take a little time to talk with me about why I'm betting the way I'm betting, they will usually understand & respect that I play a certain way and continue to be collegial despite the fact that I'm occasionally betting the other side [I prefer to see it as betting the other side, not against the other players] - and for the most part I have not had a problem with the majority of players that I have played baccarat with - just as I don't get my nose out of joint because everyone else at the table doesn't play by my system/style of play.

    But I must admit there have also been many times when playing baccarat that I feel I have been treated very rudely by groups of Asians at a table simply - as far as I could tell - sometimes for being non-Asian, and other times simply for choosing to play the game by my own style, sometimes even after I have explained the reason for my bets, or after we've all been winning, or after I have otherwise been being completely friendly & courteous in every other manner other than not to always be betting on the same side as the rest of the table - and what I find ironic is that often, this has occured when I was the one with the highest bet at the table. Funny how with the ones who are usually the rudest, their tradition calls for me to somehow have to bend to their customs and superstitions - yet they never seem to feel any compulsion to follow my lead when I'm making the biggest bets...

    That being said, I find rudeness & superstition can be encountered at any game, and from players of any and all races - but in general, my response to it is to just get up and leave the table if I encounter it - just as I won't tolerate rude behavior from Asian players at a baccarat table, I also don't tolerate rude behavior from a loudmouth Texan at a blackjack table who starts being an ass because I'm winning & he's losing, or because I perhaps made a move that he disagrees with. Likewise, if I'm playing blackjack and someone at the table is consistently making moves I disagree with - instead of berating them or trying to make them uncomfortable by acting rudely, I will simply get up & leave the table.

    I just wish more players of all races could act that way at all times playing all games :peace:
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  9. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    551
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    It goes beyond being Asian. With baccarat I have realized, not just in Vegas, if you do anything that deviates from the "norm" you will be quietly frowned upon then quietly builds up to actual resentment. Like intentionally lighting up a cigarette in hopes to get rid of you for instance.

    If you record the shoe in a different way, you will be looked upon funny. And if you consistently win flat betting while everybody is taking a hit with their progressive play, you will be looked upon funny and probably laughed at for not being an aggressive player to win big.

    So I definitely know what you are saying JillyFromPhilly since I have experienced almost all forms of resentment/envy at the bac tables.

    That is another reason I like playing in Vegas because in most cases I get to play by myself and win my little victories which adds up pretty well when it is all said and done. No one has to know or see my plays. Unless you are the dealer and/or supervisor on duty.

    Well this is a good thing really. This means this has not gone mainstream where everyone is trying to crack this game. This is undiscovered country. This is opportunity. Personally I mean I don't want this to end up like poker or even worse, blackjack. I wouldn't want some Ed Thorpe-type/MIT team coming in and cracking this game which will make things that much harder to be profitable. So... I like the "negativity" surrounding this game to keep folks out. Don't care if you are Asian, White or whatever. I prefer this form of intimidation.
     
  10. Cracker

    Cracker Tourist

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Jilly pretty much summed up my exact feelings and experiences. I do play a good bit of baccarat in between my poker sessions and I am not always the smallest bet on the table. I do not run around the bacc pit like a drunken Texan but I also don't put up with BS just because I am the token white guy in the room. It is possible to tell people I play the way I play and it is of no concern to them without being a dick. How they take it is their problem, not mine.

    What are they really going to do to you? Call you names in Chinese? Do you really care? I'm far more concerned with some Roid-Raging Guido wanna be bashing my head in after taking his money on the poker table. That is the truly dangerous crowd in Vegas.
     
  11. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    551
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    At Foxwoods there are always nasty exchange of words and sometimes actual exchange of punches where casino security and the police have to be called in. I heard it was even worse at Sands, PA. With that casino it is almost a daily occurrence.
     
  12. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I agree with most of the posters here regarding their bad experiences at the baccarat table. Sometimes with gamblers, when you bet against them, it does get personal. Think of it like the don't bettors on the craps table, they usually get some dirty looks when it's a full table of "right" way bettors, and who knows what the people on the other end are mumbling when you win on their 7-out or vice versa.

    If somebody is sliding their bet just to bet against you, not a lot of people have the grace not to get irritated, basically they are saying you are bad luck and betting against you is the way to go. This is perfectly ok in Macau casinos by the way, and people get all riled up there as well, so I don't think it is really a racial thing. Once you get into gambling, all the innate personalities come out, and people show their true colors. Bad losers are bad losers, and will flip out at any opportunity.

    Basically my view on the issue is that if you don't like it when somebody is betting against you, leave the table; whether it is baccarat or craps. You have the right to not play. However some high rollers or big bettors will ask the supervisor to kick the other guy off the table, but as another poster said, it is vegas, and the casinos are corporations that care only about the bottom line, so they will definitely boot a $100 per hand player if a $10k per hand player requests it, because they make more money in the long run from the $10k player.

    That's one issue that always fascinates me, is that people still fee that they have the same say with their money in the casino. They feel like their $5 is worth the same as another player's $5, even though the other player brings the casino $$$$ more profit per year. It is true within the guidelines of the Gaming Control Board, but casinos can put private table signs, reserved signs, etc to get around certain rules. They can reserve the right not to take your bet, that's for sure. I see people get ruffled all the time if a HR gets taken to the head of the line, or gets to reserve a table (especially craps). But from the POV of the gambler, if you are betting $$$$, and pretty serious about gambling, do you want a bunch of drunk people throwing chips around since it's just pocket change and fun money to them? I get especially annoyed at the people that just walk up and throw down 100 bucks on the 7.....you get what I mean....

    An interesting situation also happens sometimes in Pai Gow, when somebody wants to bank just because they lost a hand. Usually they ask the other players at the table but if the big player has been winning, he will put enough money out there to prevent the other player from banking because he can't cover the amount.
     
  13. dunebug81

    dunebug81 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,148
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Natedogg, you said you've lost 2 mil in a trip...have you ever won that much in a single trip? I'd love to read a TR for either one!

    I play in the HL room frequently and 90% of the time my bet is out there first if I'm going to play that hand. If other larger bettors are going the other direction it's cool by me. After all it's just a guess and no ones guess is any better. I'm generally the token white guy at the table and for the most part people are pretty friendly after a few nice wins together.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.