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Golf course or courses I just don't get

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by ken2v, Apr 30, 2014.

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  1. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    We talked about some of our fave and fantasy courses. How about a course that gets all chatted up or what not, but leaves you scratching your head. I'll start.

    In Vegas, it's a no brainer … Bali Hai.

    In the world … Torrey Pines South and that abomination the Tour was at last week.

    Oh, and contrary to what the Tour Whiners say, I like the Ritz Dove Mountain, at least the tourney 18.
     
  2. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    Ken,
    I enjoy Torrey North much more than South. My son went to school there and was a men's club member and I found South to be repetitious and boring. And hard.
    My far and away biggest gripe, and it is of a very similar vein to Bali Hai, is Trump National in Palos Verdes. Great food at the restaurant, good course conditioning but that's it. When we came off of 18 The Donald was there to greet us. That didn't help my appreciation of the course but I was polite.
    One more course that gets way more accolades than it should is Spanish Bay in Pebble. Unless one has a caddie it is almost unplayable due to all the blind shots necessitated by all the ESHA (environmentally sensitive habitat area). You literally are hitting blind. More so than Wolf Creek, which also has its share and is an acclaimed course. Spanish Bay could have been a world beater if they allowed Jones and Watson to use all the land though.
    I did enjoy Sonoma National by the way. Old school, classic set up and first class range and service.
     
  3. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    That stupid windmill with the drawbridge vexes me every time. :wink2:
     
  4. Bo333

    Bo333 VIP Whale

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    LOL....I enjoyed that!
     
  5. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Let's hope Phil doesn't screw up the TP North redesign.

    OMG, Hump Trashional LA. Or is it Chump Irrational LA? Yes. Yes. Yes. Good take from an accomplished player on Spanish Bay.

    First time I played Tetherow David had not been back in to tone things down, and now that's happened I believe twice. I played with the #2 pro from another club up there, legit stick, and he threw out an 83 or something crazy. I look forward to another look this summer.

    I'm glad Sonoma worked out for you. The first time I played I was a singleton, it was December and it pissed down on me like Noah never saw, and of course it's SN so I walked. Terri met me in the grill after the round. I looked like a drowned rat and she asked why I was smiling so much. As you know it's that kind of course. I don't grab you visually at first, but then again, neither does Riviera in winter.
     
  6. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    You want mini golf? You got mini golf. Next time you are in Kauai.
     
  7. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Mini golf? Everyone knows that today's nongolfers play online.

    Glad to read that you hated last week's course. I thought I was was just having Augusta withdrawal.
     
  8. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    That place looks fun. (end thread hijack)
     
  9. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    It's worse on the ground.

    As for Augusta, I'm not totally partaking of the Kool-Aid. I'm cool with a private club doing what it wants to do. But other clubs and players don't realize what that means and takes and costs. CBS doesn't get it either. What is good for Augusta and its bazillionaires is not good for the game, whatsoever.
     
  10. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I don't know why people get all panty-wadded around here by a threadjack. Just move on, people. It always comes back around. Anyway, your quip was funny and I enjoyed it.

    OK, at the end of this article I wrote about Kauai golf you'll find a few words about this place.
     
  11. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    I'm gonna hijack for a moment and hope Ken has some thoughts on Pinehurst #2 preferably post renovation. I will be taking a trip to Greensboro in late May and will be traveling the extra hour or so to Pinehurst and possibly playing #2 just weeks before both the women and the men converge for their respective national championships.

    My question is it worth the $400? Or does it fall in the list of just blah? I have heard that it is pretty unremarkable but I have only played it in video games. The tradition and history alone is what really draws me with my competitive golf background.
     
  12. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    OK, first things first. STOP already with all this thread-jack nonsense. Even if these posts were from left field, it doesn't bother me!!!

    Wish I could help you out but I've not played it. It certainly resonates with those who annually rate such things. But then again, some of them rave nonstop about places that leave me scratching my head.

    Agree with your sentiment on the pedigree and history. And it was Coore and Crenshaw who put it back as it was intended.
     
  13. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    Haha I was just tugging the strings a bit with the hijack.

    And I guess I'll have to post a review here if I am fortunate enough to play it next month. Rumor has it Phil has tried to get out three times and hasn't gotten out not because they are booked solid but because they are busy and he doesn't want to be on site with hundreds of others apparently. Looking forward to the history and seeing the renovation first hand. Also will be playing Dormie Club down there which is another Coore and Crenahaw project.
     
  14. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    You wouldn't get Ken's goat even if you wanted to. He and I both have rhino hides. One more metaphor and I can open a zoo!

    Ken knows, but for others, because of Dow and Harley I have carved out a big blind spot for the numerous and serious flaws in Augusta National the institution, and I agree whole-heartedly with him about the tv coverage. The nicest course I ever walked was Doral, but that ace has been Trumped.
     
  15. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    Ken,
    Tell me about Bali Hai, in Vegas.
    I've driven passed that place so many times
    and wondered what it looked like ?
    So, give me the low down ---
    What are the green fees ( btw ) ?
     
  16. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    I am quite critical of Bali Hai in my golf book and subsequent writings. For all the novelty the joint likes to portray, there's just too little steak for the sizzle, at the historic pricing structures, on that size and piece of land with its fundamental constraints and intrusions. And shock-white bunkers and palm trees and lakes on a desert course aren't exactly man-bites-dog novelties.

    (It's less of a grind at the still-too-high rack of $299 than it was at essentially four bills at the time of the crash. I'm not sure what the peak peak might be since the website never has been very price-shopper friendly.)

    In a golf-rich environment courses are rated in relation to other courses than if you're lucky enough to be the owner of some dog patch with no competition; what can I experience for my hard-earned cash? If you're going to turn kagillions of yards of dirt, bring in an arboretum, talk like a world-beating course and then ask folks for a car payment for the privilege, you better have done it right.

    Bali is not a horrid golf course. It has some good bones here/there, and some good holes. But for me it's long failed as an overall golf experience at the price being asked (again, even as they've fallen). Find a deal at $99 somehow and, well, some of that tune changes, namely the value part. Then again, not too many dollars more buys you Paiute at its regular rates. It's not remotely Paiute or Coyote Springs, or even Rio Secco, which has a few kinks of its own, for certain. And when your nearer-at-hand pricing competition is Shadow Creek or Cascata …

    On the failed golf experience angle, that's my gripe about Wynn GC, too.
     
  17. Fafa2e

    Fafa2e Low-Roller

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    Back to your original question, the course that I thought was way overrated and over priced was TPC Scottsdale. There are so many better courses in the area for significantly lower green fees.
     
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  18. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    What's your fave play over there? You could put me out at We-Ko-Pa forever and I'd be happy. I'd vacillate daily as to whether I prefer Cholla or Saguaro. And the re-do at Troon North, with the routings back as intended, makes Pinnacle so stellar.
     
  19. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    Don't forget the airplanes that look like they are landing on your fairway at Bali Hai. And occasionally an F-18 takes off. They are like an uncorked rail at the drags only louder.
    Speaking of TPC courses, Ken may have played the one in Valencia here in SoCal? Like so many of the newer courses it is shoehorned into an area that would make for a good 13 hole course. But, like all the TPC courses, it is overpriced on top of its shortcomings.
    On the other hand there is Rustic Canyon, a true muni that is very affordable, walkable and has some fantastic shot values.
    A very well known, fantastically well conditioned and even more overpriced track is Coeur d'Alene in Idaho. All due to its gimmick floating 3 par green. Just 20 miles away is Circling Raven, one of the two best courses in the state IMHO, and 1/2 the price or so.
     
  20. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    M … There are some good TPCs, some great TPCs and some head-scratchingly bad TPCs. I have not played Valencia, but I know well that feeling that some courses should just stop at 12 or 15 or whatever.

    Hey, props for calling out Rustic Canyon. I think it's the best publicly accessible play in the Southland. I really do. And if you throw in the price, it's a steal. Now the service ain't all that and my god can it be glacial out there on weekends. But go out mid-week, hand over your 40 and it's a good walk enhanced, indeed.

    Gimmicks can work. In the right place. The right context. I think one of the most caricatured courses in existence is Stadium at PGA West, but it works there. The idea was to be rather absurd; someone didn't simply screw up trying to be cloying and it failed. It's almost tame now, it seems. Punta Mita has that island green, a true island green, with the amphibious cart when the tide is up. THAT works. Wonderful hole. #17 at Sawgrass works because like Stadium, Dye did it purposefully (actually, Alice). Sure he was thinking, let the best have a wedge or 9-iron in hand, I'll fuk with them.
     
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