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Front End or Back End comps which do you prefer

Discussion in 'Comps' started by shemesh, Sep 15, 2015.

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  1. shemesh

    shemesh Low-Roller

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    Which do you prefer, to have the front end comped (room) or back end comp (room plus extras), or a mix of both.

    I am planning a trip, and am in touch with a few potential hosts, but I do not want to underplay what is expected or required.

    I am looking to grow into a bigger player, and frequent vegas more often, and establish a good gaming relationship.

    I would like to have some comps, but don't want to feel the pressure while gambling, for example betting a certain way/time/amount just for the rating.

    For some reason I feel that with the mindset of I have to play an average 150$ bet for 4 hours for a room comp, I feel that I could struggle with this pre-notion. On the other hand, if that was not the case, I would feel much more relaxed and definitely see myself letting lose and betting higher when the time is right.

    In that case is it better to just be natural, pay for the whole trip upfront and see what can be taken off at the end of the trip based on the ratings?

    Usually my trip would end on a weekend, Sunday most likely, not sure if any host would be available that time.

    Does anybody have any advice on this or personal stories?

    What is your story of how you became established with your host?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    You are confusing me with your terms. To me, back end and front end usually mean more about the philosophy of how a players club operates. An offer through a players club based on past play would be a bounceback offer and working with a host to get room charges covered over and above points accrued in players club would be discretionary comps.

    All that being said - Don't chase comps. Play the way you like where you like. Most of it will take care of itself.
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Neither.

    Take everything you can get upfront and play how you want.
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    That post is asking a ton of questions. Leo is correct, don't play for comps. Take what they will offer, but don't play for the purpose of trying to meet a host's expectations. Which is why front end comps are always better. With a front end comp, you can no play the casino and still get the comp (although it will likely negatively influence your future upfront comps).

    Never encountered a day or time when a host was not on duty (maybe not at 4am, but hopefully you're not checking out that early anyway). There are lots of older threads about how gamblers connect with a host. I find the best way is to either get an introduction from a friend that is an established player or otherwise just go to the host office and introduce yourself.

    As a final note, if $150 a hand for four hours a day makes you uncomfortable, you probably don't need a host yet. You shouldn't play at a level you are uncomfortable with and most hosts are not going to do much for you at that level. You will probably get the same comps from your corporate offers. Not trying to discourage you, but I don't want to see you disappointed. You will probably get the best host results for your level of play at a lower tier property. Good luck
     
  5. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    As Shifty Shifter said.

    The upfront offer is 99.9% for sure. Back end is above and beyond based on play. And sometimes, the backend is NOT what you should get. Front end is for sure no matter what. If you play enough to cover that and then some, they will give you more.
     
  6. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    What UK said.

    Never let an offer or host dictate your play imho. If they don't comp it, just pay for it. Not worth risking an x amt of dollars just for a room and maybe food if you can just pay for it outright at the end of your trip and lose less. You could even win more than what you would pay at the end. It all depends what you are comfortable with yourself.
     
  7. shemesh

    shemesh Low-Roller

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    Next trip will be a short weekend getaway (2nights) with a bankroll of a minimum 5,000, but pushing for a few more grand.

    I am not talking about any corporate offers, I am a relatively new player, don't have these yet.

    Also, not looking to play at any lower tier properties, just doesn't interest me, if I cant get the room comp, then I definitely don't mind paying for it.

    Thank you all for your kind input, please keep the advice coming, only a beginner here, need some more tips from you seasoned veterans.

    Another thing, I am an honest guy, not looking to take advantage of the system, just want to do what everybody else is doing.

    Funny thing is, my silly mistake, I was playing at Aria, betting thousands, did not even present the Mlife Card, which I have!, I know right?

    Pitboss came by, introduced himself, and gave some nice small talk after we were betting hundreds on roulette, again a mistake that costs, I had the feeling he would have comped something, there definitely was a feeling about that!
     
  8. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    If no one will give you an upfront comp room at the better properties, then just book it thru their own site or over the phone (not 3rd party), and you might have a chance and most likely will get it comped off. Just don't expect food and extras unless you put in a ton of hours at the tables. You never know though.

    Maybe book MGM Grand, it's very nice and decent with comps at your avg and hours.
     
  9. ajp

    ajp High-Roller

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    Based on your trip report you had very little playing time, maybe a couple hours total for a long weekend. Even if you were betting a $100 average I wouldn't expect a host to be able to comp you at a high end property based on those numbers. Now you might get a marketing offer to entice you to come stay and play. Just pay for you room upfront, gamble however you feel comfortable, at the end of the trip before you check out and pay your bill stop by the host office and ask them to review your play and see if they can comp anything.
     
  10. shemesh

    shemesh Low-Roller

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    Thank you all for your input, I decided to go my own way, will see how my ratings do and see if I can get anything comped at the end of the trip. You know honestly, I don't even want any comps, I want to win! If I can double my bankroll, that is the comp right there.

    Goodluck to you all.
     
  11. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    If a marketing offer is considered a front end comp I prefer those. Back end comps are nice but I never charge anything to the room that I wouldn't have paid for myself because if it's not comped I can't be upset. The comp is merely a nice bonus.
     
  12. RedRiverRose

    RedRiverRose Low-Roller

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    I agree. We are worth more to ourselves than we are to the casino. If I thought I deserved something and was denied I would be pissed so I take the free rooms and any mailers and pay as I go.
     
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Wait, you were betting "thousands" at Aria and then "hundreds" on roulette, but playing $150 a hand is a mental struggle for you? I honestly cannot understand what you wager and what you're trying to get. If the objective is just to get as much as you can at a higher end property, just play what you like, at a level you are comfortable with, and as you learned, always give them your card. You will start getting corporate offers soon, which is probably all you can expect from the high end properties if you only bet $150 a hand. But if you really are betting "thousands", then get a host and you will receive more
     
  14. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I understand that for some people with hosts they are willing to do some counterintuitive things to maintain the relationship because they feel taken care of.

    But really, you are a new player. These 'potential hosts' are not your buddy. Their frontend offers to you are essentially prop bets. They are saying "I bet you 1k in comps we'll win more than 1k off you at the tables if you come". And in suggesting that you don't want to underplay you are saying you want the host to always win his prop bet.

    Hosts are casino employees. If you play a lot, they really really want you to come back. If you play a little, they want you back but care less. If they comp you up front and you don't play up to the offer, they will not yell at you or lose your number or kill your cat. Worst case, next trip they offer you less up front.

    But if you don't take the up front comp, and STILL play that lower amount, you get less on the backend on trip 1, and STILL don't get offered much on trip 2 because your averages still don't look good.

    Take what you can. Play how you want. If they are giving you too much, they will adjust it down. If they aren't giving enough, there should be extra backend comps and a better offer next time. And if you are nice about it, and don't intentionally no play them or verbally abuse them, the relationship will be fine. And if you aren't worth it, you won't be worth it whether they comped you up front or not. You owe them nothing
     
  15. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    I think he means he was betting with thousands of dollars.

    i.e. that was his bankroll.
     
  16. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Ironically, if you do manage to double your bankroll, you may also earn more back end comps.
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Got it. That makes more sense :thumbsup:
     
  18. mephisto2000

    mephisto2000 Low-Roller

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    If you read OP's trip report it becomes clear that he bet 300 on outside roulette bets a few times but more frequently bet much smaller. As reported session win or loss are in the small 3 digits.

    So betting thousands is really the aggregated wager.
     
  19. shemesh

    shemesh Low-Roller

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    Hi All, Thanks for your kind input, lots of mixed feelings here. To clarify, the betting thousands, sorry I misspoke, this was indeed my bankroll and the sum of the wagers. But there were quite a few wagers in the few hundreds on both roulette and craps easily. Anyways, regarding the other things, I guess I sort of made an error, I did have a free comp based on the promise to play, but I turned it down. But after reading these comments, its true that the host is wanting your money, so why not do the same back? Jokes aside, I did manage to book a room at Aria at the casino rate, and after the play will follow up with a host to see what happens. I just have less stress this way, and I do feel better karma, important for good playing mentality, my tips will be generous too, assuming I fare ok.

    Originally I had planned to focus on Cosmopolitan, but the identity points system doesn't seem enticing, and I am not a slots player, with the exception of VP from time to time.

    I think the Mlife offers much more promise, hence focusing the play at Aria.

    Thanks once again, its nice to hear these stories and opinions.
     
  20. ajp

    ajp High-Roller

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    Just remember at a place like aria they are going to want to see 4 hours of play per day with an average bet of $200.
     
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