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From a rating perspective what is the craps equivalent of $100/hand BJ?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by mrem3200, Jul 24, 2015.

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  1. mrem3200

    mrem3200 High-Roller

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    I looked on Wizard of Odds but couldn't find it (or anywhere else I looked). Given the differences in house edge of each game and the number of rolls/hands per hour, for a $100 per hand BJ player what do they need to be betting to get the same rating on craps? Assuming relatively normal betting, meaning pass plus odds and a few numbers.
     
  2. Brick

    Brick Low-Roller

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    Since most casinos rate players based on their theoretical loss, I assume it would be some measure of: average bet X number of rolls (or hands) per hour X house edge (HE) X playing time. I defer to the resident math experts but I seem to recall reading somewhere (Wizard of Odds probably) that the expected average number of rolls per hour at craps is 60 and the average number of BJ hands per hour is something like 120. Craps is a statistical stew, in my opinion, with so many variations on bets (i.e. Pass v DP, Come/DC, Place to Win/Place to Lose, Buy Bets, Lay Bets, etc.) that I have stopped trying to master all the math.

    I would also like to know if the casinos (and hosts) prefer the $100/bet BJ player to the $100/bet craps player. I play both games but it seems like the BJ pit is always sweatier and more nervous than the craps pit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2015
  3. mrem3200

    mrem3200 High-Roller

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    Thanks, that's why I asked the question. You comment about craps being a stew is perfect. In BJ betting $100 it is simple, not counting splits or doubles, since there are only 3 real outcomes, win $100, lose $100 or push. I just don't know how it equates to craps with a different number of rolls per hour and the multitude of different outcomes on any one roll. I will respectfully disagree with you about any pit giving a shit about any player other than a huge whale.
     
  4. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Splits and doubles aren't counted for theo purposes in BJ since those are advantage plays.

    Even though the HA of dice is more than BJ it rates lower per hour because the decisions per hour they use is so much less.
     
  5. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    $100 craps player over the $100 BJ player.
    The house assumes a much lower edge on BJ (especially a high-limit table) rather than someone playing with a $100 average at craps (which would either be at BEST a 1.41% HE, but more than likely around 5%)
     
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  6. TXactuarial

    TXactuarial Low-Roller

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    Depends what you mean by $100 craps player. Is he playing pass line + odds? Playing $100 inside bets? No way that $100 pass + odds even comes close to $100/hand BJ.
     
  7. Brick

    Brick Low-Roller

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    Indeed. Casinos love whales. But I think the BJ pit is more nervous in general about player skill and counting. Even if the player is a minnow.
     
  8. FullBoat

    FullBoat VIP Whale

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    PH has me rated at $100/hand and all I did was play craps. I played $10 pass line with 2x odds. Then, $12 on 6/8. Then started come bets with 2x odds. And, pressed the odds when the number hit. So, a lot of times I had $40+ on the numbers.
     
  9. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Odds don't count though.
     
  10. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    Some places like the Wynn rate the odds. The Cosmo used to rate the odds but no longer does so. I forget whether CET properties do or not.
     
  11. newmans

    newmans VIP Whale

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    CET counts everything on the table.
     
  12. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    then that means they're really screwing you on the HA calculation.
     
  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Agreed. If you can't afford max odds, then your CET craps ratings will suck.
     
  14. Packer

    Packer VIP Whale

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    Gotta chime in here. Wynn doesn't count your odds in your avg!! PH counts everything on the table in your avg including your idds. At least as of a month ago. Caesars too. Rio too. Harrahs or linq as well. Cromwell not so sure.
     
  15. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    " the average number of BJ hands per hour is something like 120."
    I wish.
    80 if one is fortunate, probably closer to 60 in some HL rooms.
    120 would double my theo.
     
  16. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    I agree
     
  17. boofmichael

    boofmichael Low-Roller

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    I cannot imagine you ever get 120 BJ hands per hour; that's one hand every 30 seconds, I think you'd struggle to get that if you were playing heads-up, never mind at a full table.
     
  18. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    I have played many times at an 80 or more rate from a shoe heads up with fast dealers.
    Unfortunately, especially at places that take skill level into account, they never rate the theo at 80.
     
  19. Brick

    Brick Low-Roller

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    You are right. The $120 is what the house expects to make per hour from the $100/hand player based on a 2% HE at 60 hands per hour (according to Max Rubin's Comp City).
     
  20. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    You can easily get that IRL in the HL room with a fast dealer at 6 deck.

    I see one hand every 10 seconds less time for shuffling.
     
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