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Freeplay vs. Match Play - What am I missing?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by bboy554, Sep 11, 2015.

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  1. bboy554

    bboy554 Low-Roller

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    Apologies if this topic has been beaten to death -- I did a couple of searches and couldn't find anything.


    I just - to my surprise - was offered ~ $1000 in slot play or table match play for an upcoming trip. I play both tables and slots, and it seems to me that the right thing to do here is to take the slot play over the match -- Isn't slot play generally more valuable than match play? Assuming a 10-15% casino hold on slots, theoretically, I'd run the $1000 through and then have 850-900 to do whatever I wanted with. If I played BJ with a ~1% HA, wouldn't I end up with something around $500 (not counting the other side of the match that comes out of my wallet)?
     
  2. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    If you lost 1% of what you gambled, you would lose $10 from the match and $10 from what you personally had to put down. That would leave you with $980. However, it is different if they take the match and replace it with chips only equaling the match rather than allow you to keep the match along with added chips if you win the hand.
     
  3. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    You're right about the slot play. But the match play turns the HA of about 1% into a player advantage of about 49%. When you lose at the tables, you lose your money but when you win, you get double your money.
     
  4. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    OP's math is right, but the HA doesn't play into it. It's the Expected Value, given average variance.

    Say you have $1,000 in match play and you bet it on 100 hands and you win the first 50 and lose the last 50. Each match play is good only once.
    Bets 1 - 50: $10 + $10 match. Result: Wins Return from your own money: $500. Return from the match: $500
    Bets 51 - 100: $10 + $10 match. Result: Lose Return from your own money: minus $500. Return from the match: $0
    Net: $500 from the match.

    I don't have a handy reference, but if you ran $1,000 through a $1 slot with a low pay table and a 10% hold, I'd say the vast majority of the time, you'll wind up with significantly more than $500, and I'd expect it to be closer to $700 - $800.

    I'd like to see tringlomane tackle this one.
     
  5. h0und10

    h0und10 Low-Roller

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    Take the 1000 table match to a high stakes roulette or BJ and throw it all down on one hand/spin (plus 1000 of your own money) and if you lose the hand, your down 1000, but if you win your up 4000 in cash! That is how I convert my match plays anyway lol
     
  6. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Your math is off. You'd be up $2000. When a bet resolves they take the Match coupon and give you chips equal to your win. You'd have your original cash wager of $1000 plus $2000 in winnings.
     
  7. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    When I had table Match Play, they had different rules depending on where I was.
    I had instances where they took the coupon and replaced it with its value if I had won. And there were instances where they paid the value of the coupon and allowed me to keep the coupon for the next bet if I had won. And there was one instance where they paid me the value of the coupon and replaced the coupon with chips if I had won.
     
  8. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds High-Roller

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    Yup the free play is better than match play of the same amount. If you can do the free play on full pay video poker, even better!

    If you did take the match play, and assuming it's the standard kind of match play where they take the coupon when you win or lose and it's only good for even money bets, then the best EV is to wager on the player bet in in baccarat. The player bet returns a 47.95% of the match play face value. Blackjack returns 46.2%. Though that's only a difference of $20 on $1000 in matchplay. The pass line in craps is a close second at 47.88%.

    source: http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/promotional-chips/
     
    Trip #12
  9. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    Boxofbirds has the answer. The actual percentage depends on the game and the matchplay rules. You can expect the free thousand to yield a roughly $450-500 return if you do a matchplay.

    So you want to take the free play. Since video poker nearly always pays better (in expected value) than slots, you would also do well to pursue b.o.b.'s first suggestion. Find out a) if you're allowed to play it off at video poker, and b) if so, which eligible video poker game offered at that casino has the smallest theoretical hold. You could spend a few hours training yourself, or at least get a strategy sheet, and it might make a difference of $50 or more in theoretical return compared to slots.
     
  10. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    correct

    and ive played 25$ slots and put 1000$ plenty of times and not hit , thats why its called gambling
     
  11. bboy554

    bboy554 Low-Roller

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    Thanks, all! Sounds like I should "invest" the freeplay in some VP or slots and then move on to the tables. Appreciate the feedback from all you mathematicians ;).
     
  12. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    I use Free Play on video poker before I start my "real" playing. I play the $5 DDB, and if I get any 4OAK, it's a good start to my gambling sessions. I've done that twice out of 10 times of using Free Play. I want to get the A, 2, 3, or 4 with a kicker, and that will fund my gambling sessions for the entire trip.
     
  13. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    If you are going to spend $1000 during your trip on slots, you might as well use the freeplay. If you prefer not to play slots, then the answer is different.

    As to the person that things you can put down $1,000 in cash and $1,000 matchplay, and then win $4,000. Try again. You won $2000 on the bet and you of course get to keep your $1,000 original bet.

    As to play a 90% slot, you can easily blow though it all and have nothing. Or you could hit the jackpot on the 1st spin and with thousands.
     
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