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Four Queens VP downgrade

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by zlanga, Feb 24, 2014.

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  1. zlanga

    zlanga Low-Roller

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    4 Queens Major Bummer

    A few weeks ago they pulled the higher denominations off the JOB/BP VP machines in the the keno. Not a huge issue, but kind of a downer.

    Well, now they've made some DEEP cuts. The quarter 10-7 DB progressives under Magnolia - dropped all the way to 9-6. OUCH!.:cry:

    All denominations downgraded in the keno area machines. That pretty much leaves only the 9-6 JOB games by the cashier, the 4 dollar 10-7 DB machines for full pay.

    I know a lot of folks like some of the games at their bartops, hopefully they didn't slash away at those as well. :thumbsdown:

    ******************************
    Looks like they "Fixed" the pay tables back to where they should have been, as can be seen further down in this thread. Thank you to everyone who may have had a hand in getting their attention and making them understand what a mistake this was!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
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  2. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    I've been keeping an eye on this as various friends have reported in to Flusherville.

    Very distraught at these changes.

    When I was there at NY the 'play 6/9 Jacks here' signs were gone, although the games by the cashier were unchanged.

    Currently those signs have been put back on the machines, so maybe they will stay.

    Gotta pay for that new carpet somehow, I'm sure the reduced VP play from loyal customers that have stayed with them for years will help.
     
  3. TomTWI

    TomTWI High-Roller

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    Way of the world

    In a year or two the suits will realize that revenue is down from VP and decide they need to reduce it again. Or maybe put in some more penny slots. Then they will all sit around a big table and wonder why all they get for customers anymore are tourists that play for two minutes and then go see the spray painter and FSE. "Where have all he real Gamblers gone?" So it goes!

    TomTWI
     
  4. Don the Dentist

    Don the Dentist Tourist

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    The $.25 10/7 DB with a progressive for the royal flush, against the wall by Magnolias, has been downgraded to 9/6 DB.

    Don the Dentist
     
  5. marksind

    marksind Low-Roller

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    Not clear what pulling the denominations means - does that mean my wife's favorites, the bank of eight back-to-back (4 and 4) nickel 9/6 JOB and 8/5 Bonus machines near the Keno is gone?
     
  6. mgill1974

    mgill1974 Low-Roller

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    curious if the bartops are still there
     
  7. zlanga

    zlanga Low-Roller

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    Alas, that's exactly what it means. Those were my favorites too, sitting right by the security podium provided many interesting stories over the years from the radio chatter...
     
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  8. Blonde_4_ever

    Blonde_4_ever "The Welfare Queen of Windsor"

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    Not happy news....:cry:
     
  9. marksind

    marksind Low-Roller

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    Bummer Indeed

    Ugh! Thanks Zlanga for the info. Guess that leaves Main Street Station, the Palms, and some off-strip places we've never been.

    We're off to Reno for four days tomorrow. Not the Vegas vibe, but still excellent low-roller VP and table game territory. May be seeing more of them and less of Vegas in the future.
     
  10. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Four Queens 10/7 DB now 9/6

    The best VP in Vegas is gone.
    So sad.
     
  11. mrstealth

    mrstealth High-Roller

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    these downtown casino's are really killing themselves in my opinion. Slowly but surely I am finding less and less reason to even go downtown anymore.
     
  12. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Along with the closing of the El Cortez poker room, the addition of their resort fees, this cut is the deepest in my trip planning. I start building my trips with two 3 day weekends at the Four Queens rounded out by a couple nights at El Cortez on an ACG coupon.
    I guess I'll be looking out Boulder more now. I'll have to think through how I want to plan my next trip. Maybe I'll just go to Segovia, drink wine and eat lamb. If I can't win, there are plenty of alluring places to be entertained.

    However, I don't agree that the casinos will care about this in a few months.
    Every time there is a downgrade, I read posts that say the casino is, "going to be sorry."
    And every time a new casino renovates or opens, I read posts that say, "Aren't they stupid for not putting in full pay VP because they'd get so much more business. Why players would flock there."

    It is clear that from a profit perspective the opposite is true, and it has been proved by casinos pulling full pay machines right and left and not suffering a bit.
    Advantaged players don't drive profits. Gambling itself just barely drives the profits. That is why most of the "improvements" are shops and food and ferris wheels. There is little true advantaged gambling innovation and little notice of it. Try to find any mention of VP or live poker in press hoopla announcing of some new renovation or opening. It isn't even part of the discussion.

    When 10/7 DB machines were dropped down to 9/6DB at the Orleans, it had been their signature game and was advertised as a gambler attraction.
    They did not suffer.
    Folks play those 9/6 machines even with DDB 9/6 almost right next to them at the Orleans. It wasn't the Orleans who turned out to be stupid.
    The place is still a favorite of just as many folks.
    I know people who go to Vegas and only play VP and they moved to bar top 8/5 Bonus without even a small groan.
    I read this week that some players are thrilled with finding 9/5 JOB at the New Grand.
    The customers for low pay VP are there and growing.

    I thought local casinos would mean more full pay VP because that would seem to be what competition should do.
    It did not.
    It does not.
    Try to find any 10/7 DB outside of Vegas. For a while they were there with no points, maybe one machine in a casino. Now they are just gone.
    But they still get customers and casinos are growing in new states all the time.

    The Four Queens is not going to lose on this. They may lose some advantaged players who paid for their trip on that full pay. Well, to be honest they did not want us anyway unless we also brought along slot players or mixed our play with slots. T
    hey will be relieved to lose us. We could win; we were a drain in profit.
    The Four Queens may see a drop in play along the back wall there. It can be fixed by just replacing all of those 10/7 machines with slot machines. I read two are slots already.

    And it is the same with live poker rooms. They are not driving the profit, and they are withering away.

    I predict it won't change much for the Four Queens at all.

    Now, for the few folks out there who actually build a trip around this sort of gambling, here is a good link that shows what is left of 10/7 DB in Vegas.

    http://www.vpfree2.com/video-poker/search

    Most of these casinos also have other sorts of full pay VP besides 10/7 DB. Eastside Cannery has a 9/6/90 JOB. Sam's Town has full pay Deuces in quarters and dimes. These machines are fairly new additions to these casinos. Compared to the hype on the new ferris wheel, they have not gotten much press, but they suggest that perhaps in the local population there are folks who won't be fleeced to be entertained, a small niche who are worth a bit of casino space and so they put in new banks of these games.
    You won't find them packed with all the gamblers flocking to the full pay tables.
    There will be plenty of seats.
     
  13. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    I will continue to play at the Four Queens if they offer 9/6 JOB. I hope they don't cut out the mailers as they have for some on this board.

    I understand pulling 10/7 DB due to the fact that the operation (4 Queens and Binion's) is not very profitable when you factor in their rent. Their poor BJ rules have left the 9/6 JOB and the Binion's poker room as the only games I play at the two casinos (and I rarely bother with their poker these days).

    Hope they use some of the money to refurbish the very worn 4 Queen rooms (Binion rooms will never be renovated / reopened due to the asbestos issue unless they sell to a better capitalized casino operator).

    There are plenty of casinos which still offer the 99.5% + games at the quarter through dollar level across the valley (some w/ reduced or no comps):

    Strip: Circus Circus; Cosmopolitan; Excalibur; Luxor; MGM Grand; New York New York; Slots-O-Fun;Treasure Island.

    Downtown: California; The D; El Cortez; Fremont; Four Queens; Las Vegas Club; Main Street Station.

    Near Strip: Ellis Island; Gold Coast; LVH; The Orleans; Palace Station; Palms; Rio.

    Off Strip: Aliante Casino; Arizona Charlies Decatur; Boulder Station; Club Fortune; Eastside Cannery; Eureka; Fiesta Henderson; Fiesta Rancho; Green Valley Ranch; Jerry's Nugget; Jokers Wild; Rainbow Club; Rampart; Red Rock Resort; Sam's Town; Santa Fe Station; Skyline; South Point; Suncoast; Sunset Station; Texas Station.
     
  14. marksind

    marksind Low-Roller

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    Good VP Elsewhere

    Dewey,

    You'll find 10/7 DB in Reno at the Atlantis and downtown at the Silver Legacy, both great casinos. Also "full pay" for all sorts of other VP, at or in some cases below the 25 cent level.

    I even met a "professional" Jokers Wild Video Poker player a couple of years ago at the Silver Legacy, hammering a 100+% return machine. Saw him there again last year. A nearby security guard told me they know him and figure he makes about $5 an hour if he's lucky. The guy offered to sell me an advanced strategy card for $20.

    If your main interest is good low-roller gambling, Reno tops Vegas. For most there are other considerations, but we're off to Reno today.
     
  15. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    At least my bartop DDB is still there, for now.

    Unrelated to VP at Four Queens, but DW and I have noticed that in general slot machines wins are harder to come by here as well. Over that last several trips we have not done well at all there. I like to play the older style like Top dollar and Pinball. I can barely hit a bonus there, unlike the D, GG or Golden nugget that have the same games. I usually bankroll a 2 or 3 thousand specifically for these games per trip, so I should be able to get a feel for whats tight, and what is not. Four Queens is tight. Even places on the strip like Bellagio are better for me now.
     
  16. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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  17. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    Im going to be getting into DT late tomorrow. I will have to check all this out.
     
  18. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Thanks Flusher. VP free is not reflecting that any are left. They don't show any 10/7 left in the casino at all at the quarter level. I'd continue to play if the 10/7 quarter machines were there even if the progressive royal was not.

    Let us know if there is any confirmation that a couple 10/7 machines remain. Perhaps someone could check it out.

    Thanks for the comments on good plays still available. Reno does not really interest me, but I'm happy that it keeps good play there. I was there once, but it is just a bit more transportation from here by air or car.

    Thanks for the list, Viva.
    I'm fairly limited in the strategies I want to learn. I learned Deuces. I really know and prefer 10/7. JOB is okay, but a bit boring over a long period of time. I don't see seeding for hotel offers with JOB at Four Queens or anywhere. I'm not learning perfect strategy on other games.

    I like the 8/5 Bonus with progressives at the D, but there are always rumors that those machines are going to go with a bar renovation.
    I don't know what it would take to get free weekends there. Right now I just generate the weekday 2 for 1 which is a fine back to back with the 4 Queens weekends.
    I always play for some comps of some sort so playing for no points or no room offers as I suspect I would on the strip just does not interest me, and there are no 10/7 quarter DB on the strip. After comps are out of the formula, my EV goes below my interest level.
    I especially seed and seek out places that offer good value for my low level bankroll.
    Four Queens was the most generous I have found.

    Downtown California interests me. I used to get a couple free rooms at MSS, but Four Queens gave me weekend rooms for my play. Those are the expenses that add cost to my trip. They also tossed in generous freeplay.
    My play never captures host attention, but the mailers from Four Queens are the most generous for low bankroll, frugal players.

    Boulder interests me.
    I get pretty good results from my play at Sam's Town. If I shifted my VP bankroll to that casino, perhaps I'd get more than just a rigidly structured 2 for 1 weekday offer. Still, I can't imagine covering weekend rates in any of these places with my limited play.
     
  19. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Okay False Alarm

    So I've had my heart attack for nothing.
    It seems that around midnight on Friday night, during routine maintenance, the pay table was inadvertently changed.
    A host at the Four Queens assured me that the 10/7 DB is there now and that it was just an error.
    Saturday morning some folks came in, said "WTF" and got it fixed.
     
  20. Blonde_4_ever

    Blonde_4_ever "The Welfare Queen of Windsor"

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    Good news!!!
     
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