Four Queens: My offers downgraded again.

Where is your boyd home casino?

 

I don't play that much and I have gotten that offer twice. I'm at about 4 to 6 thousand a day.

 

Main Street Station, my highest average coin in is Sam's Town though.

 

In his case though he's playing a positive machine to begin with. So the biggest concern is just having enough money to ride out the swings assuming he's got 10/7 DB down well (its definitely tricky)

 

It's positive in the long run, which includes the royal as a fair part of the "positive", that royal could take a long time to come.

 

This is very true. I have been thinking about Merlin's caution about chasing comps. I didn't think that was something I did (nor do I think it is a good idea in general) but when I re-read what I wrote about maybe playing some dollar VP to get back to the $200 freeplay offer from the 4Q's, it reads exactly as though I am chasing comps. What I think I meant was that if I could mix in, say, an hour on dollar 10/7 double bonus with my usual, say, 9 hours of quarter play, then I could get back to the $200 FP offer.

But that is still chasing a comp. If I can easily lose $200 in an hour playing quarter 10/7 double bonus then I could easily lose $800 playing dollar 10/7 double bonus for an hour. All in hopes of getting an additional $120 in FP. Yes, 10/7 is a positive game which I think I play well, but playing dollars on a quarter bankroll will most likely not end well.

Peter

 

Nothing sucks more than bringing the appropriate bankroll for your typical bet level, going on tilt, switching to dollar and blowing your budget half way into a trip. I budget 2k for my level of play. It would be way to easy to blow that budget if I played dollars all day.

 

It really depends on the definition of "chasing comps" and on what gives the most pleasure.
I try to gamble so that the mathematics puts me at the advantage as much as possible. I find pleasure in having the edge on the casino. I don't like participating while the one armed bandit robs me. That destroys my fun.

Generally, I don't gamble at all unless some "comp" is attached to the payout. I'm always "chasing comps" just as when I buy something at home I'm always chasing the best deal. That was Jean Scott's original hypothesis. She felt that the real edge most gambler's could get was in comps not in the gaming.

Even the professionals who figure how much they make per hour generally "chase" comps when they play. They look for where their play can generate the most value just as when we work for a living in other professions we count as our pay the values and perks offered by the company and will "chase" those extra benefits by working in places that offer them.

For those of us who play for fun, the comps make the fun free., and for many of us that adds to our fun.

However, I understand the danger of not being able to stop when the gambling is no longer fun.
Gambling just for comps seems silly.
Gambling at negative expectation seems like allowing ourselves to be exploited.
Gambling for fun while "chasing comps" for full value seems brilliant.

I don't just chase comps, Comps have a much greater affect on my entire Vegas trip. I arrange my entire trip around them, bridging two months in order to get the limited offers in both in the same trip, choosing my fun where it is mathematically in my favor and counting comps as part of the mathermatics. Because I chase comps, even a losing trip costs less than any other standard vacation, often as much as 50% less than having fun doing some other tourist activity in a nongambling venue. Because I chase comps I head to Vegas on a 5 hour plane ride rather than to Atlantic City or other local venues with poorer odds and poorer comps. Because I chase comps I am more likely to play poker at Foxwoods than Mohegan Sun because they will give me some free nights and free food.

Four Queens offers me three nights in a row and weekends. No other casino gives me that for my level of play. Weekends are the most expensive part of booking a long trip to Vegas. I can cover one weekend using MyVegas loyalty points ,but not three weekends. The Four Queens comp brings the price of my trip down, enables me able to do 24 nights and average $11 a night, actually funds my gambling fun.

Freeplay certainly adds to the EV as does cashback. How can anyone trash the value of freeplay? What could be better? The whole game of video poker is one of trying to earn the opportunity to hit the royal and earn it cheaply. Free is pretty cheap.

I don't play as long as some of the posters here, but I'm assuming that they have a good bit of fun, and do it at the expense of the Four Queens rather than at the expense of letting the casino grind out hundreds of dollars from them.

So, what I don't understand is the railing against chasing comps on every thread that shares possibilities for advantage players and explains how they can be exploited.

Folks who are addicted and having no fun while they gamble cannot make up for the lack of fun by chasing comps. I agree.
Folks who are not having fun while they gamble need to quit and seek help.
But folks who gamble without trying to gain an edge seem to be paying way too much even if they are having fun.

The its-only-money folks who are really out to have fun by flushing away hundreds as fast as they can, just because they can, probably won't have much fun chasing comps. Those gamblers have fun losing wealth and that is fine with me. I understand the fun in abandoning all concern for cost. I just like it when they show up at my poker table. They have a good bit of fun splashing the pot over a few hours and leave refreshed, laughing about their loses. I have a good bit of fun having the mathematical edge for a while and leave with enough for a fine free meal.
As old Gherig used to say, "Someone has to pay the light bill."

But I have more fun when it isn't me.

 

You've got to have fun. It is a vacation after all, and not a job. 4Queens is going to be OK to me this next trip. Hotel is going to cost me $50 for 3 nights, and I'm getting $60 worth of comps. So how I look at it is I'm up $10 before I even get there. I'll probably play more VP/Slots this time around. Didn't have much luck at craps/BJ there last time. So, I might even get more comped by the time I leave.But, I'm not playing just for comps. I'm there to relax, and have fun.

 

I don't think trying to get the $200 FP offer back qualifies as chasing comps in this situation.

1. The base game is positive expectation. Even with mistakes (factoring in FQ generous CB) this game is still positive.
2. You are staying there so I assume you will be playing at least $6-7k coin in regardless.
3. The $200 offer isn't just $120 more than the $80 FP from a level down. It also includes $75/day in food.

Basically, that extra 3 hours at a positive machine results in a offer that has true value of $280-$345 (depending how much food you eat) more than the offer one level lower. I don't define this as chasing comps. It's actually a very cost efficient play.

 

I didn't mean to say that playing for comps/maximizing them is a bad thing, quite the opposite, but to me chasing comps is playing in amounts you normally wouldn't and longer than you normally would just to earn a comp. I've done it too, losing maybe an extra $60 at the el-cortez so I can get a $5 food voucher.

I also think there is a bit of a misperception about these full pay/"positive" machines, assuming perfect play you will lose money on them at a steady rate until you hit that royal(or big bonus payouts), now in time those royals should come but it could be several trips away. That +100% game is decidedly negative until those big hands come. those extra sessions chasing that few thousand pt's is not the "long term" where break even is expected.

 

I have never thought in terms of "positive" machines but, I do pick my machines in terms of paytables. I will play a 9/6 JOB or DDB vs. 8/5 or 7/5.

 

I've used back-to-back offers at all three Boyd downtown properties many times with no problems. However, they won't permit using offers at the SAME property within 72 hours.

 

If it starts well, stop while your ahead. I made that mistake, last trip, playing dollars for a while hit some 4oaks, then went back to the well too often and ended up on the short side of the stick. Here is one of my favorite chasing comps stories. i was going to have a short session as I was at Hooter's for one of my sons to get their calendar or something. Played for a while up $20, was going to quit, needed a few more points for a tee shirt. So I got those points and lost $20 Da!?? $40 tee shirt.

 

I've booked 3 different Boyd hotel comps this coming trip for 8 nights total. I'm going to try and keep the rotation going for as many as 19 nights if the bankroll holds. I'll let you guys know how it works out. I currently have enough offers from Boyd to cover the whole shebang if I keep hotel hopping to avoid the 72 hours restriction.

 

My latest offer is 3 nights, 200 FP no food. The last offer included food at Cafe and Chicago Brew

 

I got the same offer. I'm assuming you got the letter adding $60 in comps if you are there before mid Dec.?

Based on my play, I should generate $40-$50 per day in comps. I have mixed feelings. This new system will allow me to save comps for Hugo's but it also makes me more price aware while eating. Part of the fun in the upfront comps is ordering stuff you wouldn't normally get. If I order sensibly, I will come out ahead in this new system. However, I was always right up against my limit on the upfront comps so things will change.

 

I did not get a letter? I have $74 in comps and like you was hoping to get a little food, so I could use those comps at Hugo's.

 

Yeah, I need to see what they'll give me after my last stay. The D already has offered me 3 nights comped. My last deal at 4Q was BOGO with $40FP. I played more this time around, so hopefully it'll be better.

 

They sent a letter announcing the new comp system. It came about a week before the Nov/Dec. mailer. Mine offered to add $60 to my comp account if I present the mailer prior to mid Dec. I've seen that some people got a letter for $40 or less and one person who got $100.