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Slots For Slot Machine Ethusiasts-Question:...

Discussion in 'Slots' started by Electroguy563, May 18, 2015.

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  1. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I was reading the thread about someone needing help getting a handpay at slots and a question popped up in my head.

    My question:

    Is there a way one can determine if a slot machine is more highly volatile than another? I noticed for example in the above thread that comments were made that Cleo is highly volatile whereas Quick Hits are more apt. to be consistent with payouts.

    Is there a general observation one can make (reading the rules, checking the payout table, etc.) so as to determine if the game is more likely to pay smaller more frequent wins or one huge win over a longer play period?

    Or are these assessments of certain machines the product of experiences from slot ethusiasts sharing with each other?
     
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  2. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Kind of. Sometimes games the way the games are designed they will be volitile. For example, games with stacked symbols are going to have fewer overall hits but will hit big out of the blue a lot. And a game with a traditional layout and bonus game with decent but not sexy five of a kind payouts are ones I expect to hit more frequenlty.
     
  3. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    As I understand it, it's the way that they are programmed.

    When they went to the "software controlled" design, the way that the paytables were designed determined the volatility of the machine.

    I believe that the manufacturers state the volatility of the machine on their website (may be excluded from public view)
     
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  4. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    I'm not worried about winning too much money.
     
  5. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    One thing to say off the top is: just because a machine has a super high volatility doesn't mean thats a bad thing.

    Having an idea of how volatile a machine is can give you an idea of what to expect when you play it... like how some people would say for their play on slots they sit at a machine and play and if they don't hit something within the first 4-5 spins they move on. If its a high volatility machine you easily could go 5, 10 or 15 spins without hitting anything so in that case you might as well not sit down.

    Volatility can also translate in to how long your money lasts: a game with a low volatility will let you play and play and play and grind through your bankroll, whereas a high volatility game can just gobble up your money if you don't have any of the big wins because its small wins are usually really small and lots below what you are betting (IE: betting 50 cents a spin and seeing lots of 10-15 cent wins).

    But if you want the big wins then volatility is where its at: a game with a low volatility usually has a top prize of $600-800 (penny slots) that you can only hit if you are betting max (usually 10x credits, so about $3-5 per spin) and you have to get all five wild or logo symbols in a row - pretty rare... but a game with a high volatility: just yesterday I saw a woman on a 50 cent spin win $700 at my local casino.


    How can you tell how volatile a game is?

    Observation: playing a machine or watching other people play. If you are walking around the casino and see somebody with a small bet hitting it super big unless they just hit a progressive jackpot its likely going to be a game with a high volatility.

    Manufacturer: most companies have a certain style to their games. High5, as an example, mostly makes games with a high volatility whereas Konami are mostly mid volatility and Aristocrat are mostly lower volatility. Though this can change over time: WMS used to do mainly low volatility games, but now they are doing almost nothing but high and super high volatility... and the newest Aristocrat games are getting pretty volatile.

    Game Style: Stacked symbols are a definite sign of games with a high volatility, also if the game has anything like a "bonus guarantee" (they guarantee at least a certain minimum to be won on the bonus). If the game has wild multipliers in normal game play (not just during the bonus round) then its probably going to have a higher volatility, IE: if you hit "top symbol", "wild", "wild", "wild", "top symbol" and the wilds are x2 to x5 where you could possibly have five of a kind of the top symbol x125 - they have to make up for that somewhere and thats what the volatility is for.
    Extra reels also seem to be a good indicator of games with a higher volatility: most video slots have 5 reels but there are some with 6 and the ones with that 6th reel seem to be more volatile.
    Massive free games available: this one is an easy giveaway... games like China Mystery where you could potentially win hundreds of free games have a very high volatility.

    Three Reels: most classic three reel slot machines have a higher volatility than video slots and the newest ones that combine video play and three reels (IE: the three reel Lord of the Rings machines) are much much much higher.

    Forums: There are a few other message boards out there dedicated to slot machines where people discuss the games and their findings.

    Books and the Internet: You can find some of the info on game testing and development in some books (books about slot machines, usually in your local bookstores gambling or games section) and on the internet where they'll list the machines whole set of playtesting stats. When companies develop a new machine they usually simulate upwards of 200,000,000 to 700,000,000 spins to calculate its payback, hit rate, etc... and games that have really low or really high hit rates tend to be more volatile and most machines in the 17-25% hit rate generally are the low to mid volatility.
     
  6. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, there are ways to estimate, but it's not straight forward math like it would be with VP or video keno. Unless you can find the appropriate PAR sheet data, and if you did, please share it with me...shhh.

    Previous posters covered a lot of it already here, especially Auggie, wow that's some good stuff. The only other tip that wasn't really talked about is. On 3 reel games look for more top heavy paytables and machines that have multiplying wilds like triple diamond, 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x machines, etc.

    And on the penny side, it's worth reiterating machines with tiled symbols. If the biggest symbols pay decently, a board full of those will pay off a lot. Also games with multipliers in bonus rounds ala "Buffalo".
     
  7. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I feel pretty dumb, hope you guys understand, but what's a stacked symbol? Is it like combos of symbols like double 7's or like 1 bar vs. 3 bars?
     
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  8. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Thanks. I'll visit the manufactures websites. I want to play for entertainment, some of the penny machines look quite entertaining, but I want to play for a while not just endlessly feed it, LOL.
     
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  9. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Yeah, I kinda figured that, but it would be nice, lol. I want to play machines that entertain without you endlessly feeding it. I used to play those 3 reel Red White and Blue type of machines but they get boring after a while. And I'm noticing that they are not as prevalent as they used to be. More penny video slots now.
     
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  10. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Wow. This is great info. Thanks for sharing! I'm a craps player and would dabble in VP and both require focus and concentration. I want to play entertainment slots for a change to relax my brain once in a while but if I can find the fun ones that let me play a while it would be nice.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
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  11. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Buffalo seems one of the favorites on this board. I played it a couple of times but damn if I knew what the hell I was doing. I really gotta relax when I'm in Vegas and READ the rules of the game. I'm so amped up I don't bother to review the rules, I just sit down and play and get frustrated trying to figure out the game, LOL.
     
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  12. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Stacked symbols is a video slot thing. Instead of a reel where you get three unique symbols you may get a reel that is the same symbol stacked on top of each other 2 or more times, depending on how the array is configured. The best wins would be getting full reels of the better paying symbols all the way across. A good example would be a game like China Moon.
     
  13. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Thanks! I'll make a note of that. As I mentioned earlier I'm a craps and VP player. I want to play more relaxing and fun, entertaining games that don't require much focus.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
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  14. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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  15. waverunner

    waverunner BBHMM

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    The thing i like about stacked symbols and getting free games over a 100, like in the video, is that no matter what you win in the bonus round, whether it be 50 pennies, 500 pennies, 50,000 pennies, whatever, it actually saves you money because you don't have to bleed your pockets.
    That's money management at it's finest. If you gamble for 5 hours and get a bonus round with 75, 100, 150 free games, you just sit back knowing you'll at least get something, but more importantly the time it takes to get through all of this is beneficial to you in more ways than you could imagined.
    "American Eagle" is one of my favorites for this very reason.
     
  16. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    Reading the rules won't help you. You can't make any decisions.

    Some games we enjoy are: Airplane, Godfather, Dirty Dancing, Ferris Beuller, Scrabble, Slingo, Michael Jackson, and Batman and Robin.
     
  17. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I first found VMb and other sites when I started making regular trips to Vegas, figuring if I was going to play slots, I should know something about them. I read about volatility, RNG's etc- but there was one posting on another board that I do think changed my slot play.

    In 10 years of going to the USA, I hadn't had any handpays, I finally did get 1 last year. Not much considering how many spins I did really...

    Anyway, Late last year I came across a post from the slot manager from one of the major non-vegas casino's in respect to the holds on a slot machine. In essence, what he said is yes, slots may be set to have a hold to the casino of 15%, but that number is over the course of the slots lifetime.....which is an incredible amount of spins. He said at the end of the day when they run the reports, it's normal to find one machine may have paid 2% of money taken in, and another machine paid 300% of money taken in. It's a matter of averages over the longterm, and one day, a few days, is hardly a blip on the map.

    In the past, I have approached a bank of machines and chose which one to play, often shunning anything that showed a bigger win on it, thinking to myself - oh- that one already paid out. If I saw someone dump $300 in a short bit in a machine, I'd jump on that one figuring it was "due".

    My first trip this year I tried to shake off the old psychology and include games that I know had some kind of payout....but still was somewhat hesitant. I came out ahead for the trip, and had lots of $800-$1000 payouts. Early in the trip I had been playing next to Pleepleus, who had a 1k winner. I was near the end of my trip playing NEAR that machine, and the couple who were playing on it cashed out the EXACT machine Plee had been playing, saying they had cashed out $1k, but had taken about 3k out of it in the last couple days!

    I then went on my second gambling trip this year, and with attempting the new psychology where I could, we had a great trip. Had 3 handpays in 3 days. Unheard of for us. Ended that trip a winner as well. Woohoo! But could still possibly be coincidence???

    Anyway, my advice is you can go crazy trying to figure out all the volatility and other aspects of how theoretically you should be able to get some playtime or wins. If you come across a machine that's been paying - give it a go. Set a stop loss on any given machine. First and foremost, it's entertainment, so play the ones that you find yourself drawn to, enjoy playing and if in the end you lose- which most likely will happen- well at least you had some fun while it lasted! Personally, if I have my choice between a machine that paid zero, and another one that just cashed out $627.42 cents to someone......I'm going to pick that one!

    Good luck and have fun!
     
  18. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    If it worked for you, it might work for me! Thanks!
     
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  19. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    That's true. It's not like I can change the outcome. I'm gonna write the names of the games all of you VMB'ers like to play in a notebook and take it with me next time I go.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
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  20. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    "American Eagle". Thanks. It's going in my notebook of games VMB'ers like to play. On my next trip I can look for these.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
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