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Food for Tipping Thought

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by leo21, Jun 6, 2014.

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  1. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Here is an article about servers telling us what they think we should tip them. All I think when I read stuff like this is: if customers really got this level of service, servers would really get the tips they are expecting. But the the reality is we don't so perhaps its time for tipping to die.

    http://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/how-to-tip-guide-to-tipping
     
  2. rvallez6

    rvallez6 Low-Roller

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    I don't mind tipping when it's appropriate but I don't like smug articles like these where the person feels they are always owed a certain minimum tip because of all of the work they put in. I'm not responsible for the bartender or the server making a living, that's the profession they chose. I do tip for good service, but I hate being told what the minimum amount should be.
     
  3. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Man, I don't know what to say... some of thats just so... out there.

    If the service from your waitress is horrible, they still say tip 5-10%
    If its just average service, still tip 20% (go to 30-50% for exceptional)
    Or if you order a hot meal and the delivery driver brings it and its cold, still tip 15%
    If the food is an hour late, still tip $4 or 15-20%

    But I guess you have to expect that when the servers section starts off with telling you they deserve compensation for doing their job:
    They remember to put your dressing on the side, get you an iced tea with lemon, and bring more napkins to the table because you're a slob. And because of that, they deserve to be compensated.

    I am a very generous tipper, but I tip for good, fast service, not for just doing the basics of the job.
     
  4. UTE

    UTE Plastics

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    Yeah, a poor attitude toward customers seems to come through in articles like that. Maybe I just know too many bartenders (and other service workers) who really dislike customers after a few years on the job. It really does seem to suck the life out of a lot of them. I know I wouldn't want to do that work myself.

    Bill
     
  5. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    I recently traveled with a bunch of folks on a business trip. Our flight was delayed so we went to the airport bar and had a few cocktails. One of my coworkers picked up the tab and left a 12% tip. The bartender chased us down on our way out and said the tip was insufficient and should be 15%. I'd never seen something like that before.

    The article would make Marx proud. These servers and bartenders should get paid more because they think they deserve it.
     
  6. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    I love those tipping tips, they basically double what most people do, that bartender that ran after the customer and said 12 % was insufficient, I'd have told him his actions now warrant nothing and demand it back.
     
  7. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    My baseline is about 15-20%. With poor service and poor attitude it goes down to 10%. With excellent service I'll top out at 25%. Tips are not an entitlement, they have to be earned, IMHO.
     
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  8. CALELLA

    CALELLA Low-Roller

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    Until people learn that tipping has to be earned and not just given as a rule then you will always get articles like this.

    I do a good job in my chosen area of work but don't get tips so why the feck should I tip some surly taxi driver/bartender/waitress who is having a sh itty day, gives me sub-par service and then moans like a bi tch when I don't tip them??

    If I get sh itty service then I'm not tipping period, maybe because in the UK we dont tip as a rule but only if earned is why I find it funny to see some of you guys saying you still tip for service that is not up to standard.

    If my job is not up to standard i would get my ass fired, not get fecking tipped for it, lol.
     
  9. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    This line from that article cracked me up:

    "Think about the effort the bartender has to make. To open a bottle of beer or opening a bomber is the same amount of effort."

    The $1 for that is fine, its the minimum most people would probably tip. I do it because that's how they make their living and because its convention, but they sound silly trying to justify it in terms of the "effort" to open a bottle. Haha, 90% of the reason you got that job is because of your cleavage not because you're one of the few people willing to put in the effort to open a bottle.
     
  10. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    Asking for tipping to die is just like asking for poor service.

    A good example is i used to work at a place for commission where we had scheduled clients and got paid a commission on the the stuff they purchased.

    If a client walked in without an appointment and was in a hurry we would still get the commission.

    They changed that rule and made us put it under the house which effectively ruled out any motivation to handle walk ins. From then on when walk ins came in even if I had nothing to do, I would just get up and go to the backroom and ignore them. I was not getting paid to help them and I work for money so there was almost an anti incentive built in.

    The same will happen if we remove tips. There will no longer be a motivation for servers to try just that tad bit harder so why would they? They will see their coworkers in the backroom like I was reading a paper pr playing a game on their phone getting paid the same amount as them so why not join them.

    Sure, you can say that they should be fired but we know thats not going to happen in most cases otherwise 99% of most places now would have no workers in them.

    I say lets just let them do their jobs, they work hard and we should tip accordingly.
     
  11. 3544quebec

    3544quebec Low-Roller

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    Is it a genetic defect or some environmental factor that results in this large sector of the population in the US that is incapable of providing good service unless a reward is dangled directly in front of their faces which seems to be what some are suggesting?
    People who work in the same sectors in other countries seem to be able to provide an acceptable level of service without a direct payment to them personally from their customers and there are plenty in the USA who provide good service to their customers/clients simply because they get paid a reasonable wage for the job they do and of course they have this strange thing called a work ethic.
    I don't understand the argument that $2/hr plus tips is the only mechanism that that will ensure that people in the US will be fed and watered and that it would be impossible to actually get a table at a restaurant in the US if a reasonable wage/not reliant on tips system was in place because they would all be occupied by the skeletons of customers who have died of hunger/thirst waiting to be served.
     
  12. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    I don't think tipping leads to better service anymore, especially when I see more and more articles like this. If a server gets a good tip, they think it was because it was they were great, even though more and more research shows that good tips don't always relate to actual service received. If they get a bad tip, they never think has anything to do with their poor performance. It was the race or ethnicity of the customer, the way they were dressed or talked, etc. etc and all too often they use appearance to justify never providing a positive experience in the first place. In this day and age we've had to leave restaurants because it was obvious the server didn't want to wait on a person of color and still find we need to complain to management because we very obviously didn't receive the same level of service from a server as other customers. There is a huge disconnect from what a server expects in tips and what an average customer expects in service and I don't see tipping improving that gulf. There at least needs to be an adjustment so that so much of a servers income isn't tip based.
     
  13. alana86

    alana86 Low-Roller

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    50% is laughable. Prices are high enough to eat out. Lunch now costs us $60 with a drink each, tax, tip in Canada. The only way I might tip 50% is if I hit it rich, but rich people get rich by not being that stupid lol.

    That being said, I still tip 18-20% but I don't like the pressure of tipping a certain amount.
     
  14. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    I don't think it is so much that they require the the reward be dangled in from of them to provide good service but that some know by good service they can make above and beyond any amount that they would ever see doing the same job if it were paid a traditional hourly wage.

    Let's be honest, if the US were to go to a traditional wage in restaurants and bars the servers and bartenders would likely make near minimum wage which federally is $7.25 so lets call it $8 for simplicity. You work 40 hours a week thats $320 a week before Uncle Same comes calling. Where with the tip system that is $2 an hour you collect a check for $80 before taxes however if you work somewhere with an average ticket of $20 a person you can easily bring in $100 or more a night in tips, resulting in you making over $500 a week. So I wouldn't say it's necessary on tips for good service to be provided but it is a good monetary reward and increased income for those who work hard.

    My 19 year old brother works in the service industry at a fairly nice restaurant and if he were to earn a traditional hourly wage of $10 for the 30 hours a week he works during school he'd get a whopping $300. He was literally in my room just 10 minutes ago telling me how he made $180 cash in tips last night alone. If he couldn't make that money in tips he'd be better off at a retail job where he could get the same hourly rate while just hanging out "helping" customers. Tipping and $2/hr wage is great for the people that want to put in the effort, it's a lot of the reason I worked retail growing up because I didn't have the patience to wait on needy and inconsiderate people that a common at restaurants.
     
  15. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    This is where the "tipping is an incentive" argument falls apart for me as well. My view on tips changed a lot when I lived overseas and service was incredible and tipping was not expected (even discouraged by the locals). There are other factors that come into play for sure, its not just that Americans are lazy or have no work ethic, there are economic differences but I think the larger part is just a culture of service that has died here. The difference is striking compared to other places, particularly in hotels and airlines, where people don't think it is beneath them to serve customers.

    The often touted argument for it is that if employers paid the competitive free market wage the extra costs would just be transferred to customers, and so you'd lose choice. Its true to a point but its also a specious argument because any Econ 101 student can tell you that there is almost always a deadweight loss when costs are transferred instead of shared. In reality under a free market their margins would go down, not simply made up by higher prices, and that is the way free markets are supposed to work.
     
  16. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    I was just in vegas and went to a subway, had a $5 footlong, didn't tip of course(who does at subway), as I walked away i heard the guy yell "thanks". so know the guys at subway expect a tip?
     
  17. Someone

    Someone High-Roller

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    there are several things that make the USA different from most countries especially the ones where restaurant service is "good" without tips

    1. in many of those countries eating out is a much longer experience they have a longer amount of time than one hour or even 30 minutes for lunch and they take a great deal longer at dinner

    in the USA there is often now 30 minutes for lunch and at the longest usually an hour and it is generally set by the company that they prefer you to take it at the same time of day as everyone else which leads to a rush

    2. unfortunately there is a lot of crappy service and work ethic in the USA

    3. in many countries restaurant service jobs are seen as a long term career while in the USA for the longest time with the exception of a place like New York City a service sector job was seen as a job for younger people in school or looking to work while they look for a longer term career

    unfortunately here in the USA we now have idiots that think that flipping a fast food burger or dropping a fry should be able to comfortably feed a family of 3 to 5 usually with a single head of household or single wage earner......and generally those that believe that is their "career" are the crappiest workers in earth and harbor a massive sense of entitlement so just wait until they pick up the order pad and servers tray and drag their attitude over to your table without tipping to even remotely try and motivate them.......have fun getting assaulted because your drink was empty and your food order was incorrect

    4. I generally really believe that most people that travel overseas do so with rose colored glasses on and the are so ready to feel "enlightened" or "worldly" and to look down on the USA in favor of all these other wonderful cultures that they overlook poor service in other countries or they believe (pretend) that it is a cultural norm and cute and kitschy and fun and all part of traveling and I also think since it is usually on vacation and eating is a time to rest and unwind the have no issue if service is slow and if it is poor they are either having a good time overall or they don't want to bother bringing up poor service while on vacation and then you mix in a language barrier and it is easy to pass it off as something other than just poor service

    I read an article a little while back (perhaps even linked on here) talking about Italy and their service industry issues and along with it the taxes in Italy and how it leads to these issues........getting charged 2X as much because you sat at the little 2 top table right behind you to drink your espresso VS standing at the bar because Italy taxes restaurants for tables, but not for standing space at the counter and if you order at the counter and then sit down you can expect to get charged 2X r 3X the price

    games with ordering water and ordering tap water being "rude" VS in most places in the USA tap water is presented automatically unless they are water rationing and waiters taking a long time to refill that glass if at all (boy that sounds like great service and work ethic)

    tourist menus with higher prices (gee no wonder they don't need to concern themselves with tipping they are ripping people off)

    not reporting cash income (tipping is one of the things that actually keeps USA restaurants honest about cash sales)

    playing games with offering you items like bread or antipasto in a way that suggest they are complimentary, but then you are charged for them.......oh what fun having to dicker over every item offered or presented to the table.......sounds like a swell meal......in a flea market!

    bread charges

    10-20% service charge added to the bill (wow sounds just like a tip except you have no choice in the matter)

    here is the article

    http://www.walksofitaly.com/blog/travel-tips/how-not-to-get-ripped-off-eating-in-italy

    5. now to tipping and taxes and cash sales and honesty

    in the USA most people do not know this unless they have worked in the service industry as a waiter or bar tender specifically and they have a clue and pay attention, but waiters and waitresses are taxed for 8% of their total check sales by the government........it is said that this is to cover the taxes on "tipping", but the reality is it is a way to make sure that waiters and waitresses ring each item into the register so the government can know what the total restaurant sales were

    because unlike in the article presented above where people (especially foolish rose colored glasses wearing tourist from the USA even mentioned at the start of that article) in the USA there is not a chance in hell that any restaurant patron will just accept a bill that is not itemized and that just has an amount written on it especially when it does not come close to matching what the menu prices would have added up to be and even more so if it is just hand written on a piece of Big Chief Tablet paper or an old napkin

    so it is expected that a bill will be presented that is itemized and when a waiter or waitress is going to make a living based on a tip that is a % of that total bill it is in their best interest to have that bill be as high as possible and as accurate as possible because if $3 dollars in side items or $8 dollars in deserts or appetizers is missing that cost that waitstaff member $.45 cents to $1.20 and if you do that twice per hour it can add up all day every day

    tipping also keeps the waitstaff honest (and while we all know this is not always the case at a bar especially) in the case of a restaurant where it is much harder to keep track of food sold VS total "takings" it prevents the waitstaff from giving away an appetizer or drinks ect especially to friends or family.....true that controls in the kitchen where no item leaves the kitchen without a computer generated ticket for it helps, but tipping goes back well before that

    in a bar you can weigh bottles, count bottles, estimate beers and drinks per keg or bottle ect while it is much more difficult to know how many bowls of soup or dishes of hot sauce or baskets of chips should have come from each bag especially when there is always some of that which is discarded at the end of the evening because it will not be fresh the next day or it has reached expiration or it is a portion that is not worth keeping in a fresh container to use the next day

    true waitstaff can give food away to friends ect and get something later from them, but that is more difficult with controls for food out of the kitchen

    and really the concern with the IRS is the restaurant understating cash sales and that is still possible, but it would require an owner to re-ring a ton of transactions and exclude the ones that were cash and toss the old register roll with the complete cash sales on it or to hide it somewhere as the "other set of books"

    6. again eating out in the USA for many is more of a "sport" than a leisure time so the idea is to get in, eat and GTFO......which is why places advertise meals to the table in under 15 minutes at lunch......what is a major complaint you hear from people when they eat out.......they had to wait for their check to be dropped instead of the waitstaff dropping it right when they made the last "table touch" to see if anyone wanted deserts or something to go ect and if everyone was done then check is presented and waitstaff watches attentively to see when the money/credit card is placed and they return promptly AND STATE I WILL BE RIGHT BACK WITH YOUR CHANGE INSTEAD OF TIP FISHING BY STATING WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR CHANGE and then they return with the change if needed or the credit card and receipt and then the diners generally hit the door and the table is turned

    what is another complaint having to wait too long for a table......well imagine if Americans ate out like Euros and others do and took 1.5+ hours for a meal what your wait time would be for a table......Americans generally just don't do that and if they do the are known as "campers" in the industry

    and generally places that have higher revenues per table have instructed their staff on how to "work" a table such as clearing dishes/pre-busing (rude not to, but it puts people into a position of deciding if they are done with their plate or they will sit there and pick at the last morsels for an hour), timely table touches for drinks so people are not waiting to eat because they are out of drinks or lack a condiment, timely delivery of the check and or request for deserts of coffee (those are profit centers, but if declined the check should be ready to be dropped and or dropped shortly after it it tallied) and then of course prompt delivery of change or credit card receipt again WITHOUT MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF AND ASKING IF THEY WOULD LIKE CHANGE YOU IGNORANT TIP FISHERS THE PROPER STATEMENT IS I WILL BE RIGHT BACK WITH YOUR CHANGE AND THEN THEY CAN SAY "NONE NEEDED" AND YOU THANK THEM

    the reason the "standard" is 15% for a tip is because it is 8% that the government will collect and then the 7% to the waitstaff member for making up for their $2.15 per hour wage

    and again in the USA (we are not Europe and probably never will be) when table turning is important and speed of service is often desired by the customer VS a lingering extended dining experience the more tables a waitstaff member turns in an hour the harder they have worked and the higher their compensation......and believe me that makes a difference to a quality waitstaff member because they understand turning tables and they understand that an additional 1-3 tables per hour with an average check of say $45 dollars can mean an additional $6.75 to $20.25 per hour and if they do that over 3 hours of service on a busy Saturday night that is an extra $20 to $60 dollars in their pocket or $80 to $240 per month so that is a gas bill to a large portion of a car payment they can make by turning tables faster

    if we go to the "Euro standard" (where we already see in Italy they have service charges just added to the bill which is just a fancy way of saying tip required no matter the service quality) I can guarantee you that servers will slow down even if they don't even realize it themselves because there will just be no incentive to make that table touch so rapidly or to drop/pick up the check so rapidly or to pre-bus a table even if it means they are picking up plates from a table just after they carried a ton of food to another table as they head back to the breakdown area to get some additional drinks for another table......they will make those trips separately if at all

    the results will be less table turns for the restaurant causing them to increase prices as people leave because they do not wish to wait longer for a table, the same number of waitstaff will serve fewer tables along with kitchen and bus staff which means increased labor cost per table served which bumps up prices and over time those that can make waiting tables work for them because the understand the concepts of turning tables and proper service will gravitate to other industries and they will be replaced with McDonalds type service staff that feels entitled to $15 per hour for a job that was never ever intended to be a career or to feed a family especially a family with a single wage earner and then you will have higher menu prices for dramatically lesser service and the results of that will be the restaurant equivalent of "baggage fees" and "resort fees" and you will get chiseled for every single thing like $.50 cents for tap water because cleaning that glass cost money and that water is not free nor is the service to provide it and bread charges and bill stuffing and then lastly "service charges" which will be right back to a TIP only without the ability to control what that tip is and with all of the other bread fees and water fees and table fees and higher menu prices and shitty service along for the ride

    so the results will be shitty service, service staff that does not care about your feelings on the service or the bill stuffing/chiseling, higher prices, longer waits and a generally shittier experience overall

    there is ample evidence of this type of phenomenon both in the USA in other industries and overseas in the restaurant and bar industry as presented above in the linked article on Italy and the unfortunate thing is there are even idiots in the restaurant industry that do not understand this
     
  18. lotso-bear

    lotso-bear VIP Whale

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    One word: entitlement.
     
  19. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    These tipping threads are hard for me. I totally understand everyone's frustration with the content of the article as we have a certain perspective as "tippers". Having been a waitress, I know the other side of that perspective. I've spent a huge amount of time and energy on a large table of demanding customers who left 1-2%. I will admit following someone out to the parking lot to let them know they forgot their "change". The guy said, "That's your tip." And I said, "Really? What did I do to ruin your meal?"

    Okay.. so not the most mature reply ever, but my excuse is that I was 17 years old and knew everything already. :haha:

    You can get pretty jaded in the service industry. We've all seen people treat servers poorly when it wasn't deserved (and when it was).

    My personal experience in Vegas is that my tips have always been accepted with a thank you whether it's $1 or $20. Is that because of how my tips are given? Because I choose to ignore the negative Nellys out there? Or because I'm just lucky to run into good people? I'm not sure. But I do try to always remember that the people I encounter are usually experiencing a whole level of interior stuff that I can't see. I prefer to share a smile rather than a frown.
     
  20. melbedewy

    melbedewy Low-Roller

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    15%-and that's IT baby.
     
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