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Table Games Flat Bet

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by AbeFrohman, Feb 2, 2016.

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  1. AbeFrohman

    AbeFrohman Tourist

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    I have reading about card counting and searched the forums. I read that someone accused of counting got "flat bet". I assume that means you can't raise your bet during a shoe. That sucks because pressing your bets when on a winning streak is the only way to make money, assuming you don't count cards. What if you are losing will they let you drop your bet? Say you are flat bet but like playing anyway and are betting 500 a hand. You hit a cold shoe and lose several hands in a row. Would they let you drop your bet back to the 100 minimum?
     
  2. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    If you get told to flat bet by the pit I assume it would be for the table minimum. So in your example you'd be told you can only bet $100 a hand. I don't play blackjack much but this is what I've gathered from listening to "Gambling With An Edge" podcast.
     
  3. flamingogo

    flamingogo Tourist

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    If you are flat bet, that means the casino thinks you're counting and now you can only bet one amount for the entire shoe, since the only way to have an advantage at BJ is by raising and lowering bets (besides for jumping out or in in middle of the shoe). They won't let you change your bet, whether you're losing or winning. I've never been flat-betted but i would think it can be for any amount and not just the table min, as the more you bet while flat-betting, the more you'll theoretically lose.
     
  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I can not imagine this is common.
     
  5. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    if they 'flat bet' you, then you are forced to only bet the table minimum on shoes and dont let you enter mid
     
  6. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    Why not just wait for that shoe to play out by not betting at all? maybe go to the bathroom or get up and stand back for a bit?
     
  7. pleepleus

    pleepleus 2016 - The monkey is back

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    If you're flat betting, the house will eventually grind you out.
     
  8. DickTater

    DickTater Low-Roller

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    Your chance of being "flat bet" is pretty minimal. It is totally normal for players to up their bets when hot and lower when cold. No one minds that. The only time you'll get heat is if you all of a sudden go from $25 to $300. I vary my bets all the time and have never been "flat bet" in 25 years.
     
  9. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    $25 to $300 isn't even that big of a jump at a lot of places, they look at anything under purple as "small" so you could spread 1-12 and not get any flack for it, but if you were spreading $1000-$12000 you would get flack for the same spread because at higher limits they watch more closely
     
  10. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I have never been 'flat bet', but I have been barred from playing twice... and both times, I never once increased my bet, but they suspected I was counting. Both were single-deck 3:2 games, S17 with DAS. (yes - a LONG time ago). At one, I was playing head-to-head & would play multiple hands when the count went positive (this was in Colorado when the table max was $5). After about an hour, they barred me from playing.
    The other was at Circus, head-to-head, when I complained about the dealer shuffling - she would re-shuffle, sometimes after just one hand - anytime the count went positive by 2 or more. I said something like, "Aren't you required to deal to the cut-card? Why do you keep shuffling before the cut-card?".
    Pit critter immediately showed up and asked me "Is there a problem?". I said, "Yeah - she keeps shuffling before the cut-card...sometimes after just one-hand, depending on the count." (I know - I should never have said that!)
    Pit-critter says to me, "You're no longer welcome to play blackjack at Circus-Circus".

    My point is - if they think you're counting, they can flat-bet you or bar you - for any reason or no reason.
    My understanding of the pit flat-betting a player is that all bets must be at the table minimum & no multiple hands are permitted. If they do this, what they really want is for you to just go away....and it typically works, (I would think).

    When people ask me, I suggest they keep their spread to no more than 1-to-5 or 1-to-6. I almost never catch any heat with such a small spread... of course, I rarely realize any significant wins either.
     
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  11. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    As topcard mentioned, "flat bet you" basically is a nice way, or the first step, to say "you are barred from playing here".
     
  12. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Curious what if at a table with other players you sit out hands with a poor count? Would they allow that?

    Or at that point would they just ask you kindly to leave?
     
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  13. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    And confrontation is just "food" for the pit critters. Gives the a chance to exercise power.
     
  14. Old Salty

    Old Salty Tourist

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    Yes and in the long run ( I mean like many sessions) you have to press when you come upon a streak of winning hands. I've had a few really long streaks over the years and have been
    questioned if I was counting. I told them "I wish I was that smart". A well known BJ expert and author told me I should tell the pit up front that I will progress my bets if I hit a streak. That way it reduces the suspicion.
     
  15. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    I have been flat bet by MGM. They are actually a little nicer about flat betting. As oppose to some other chains who tell you you just can't play. Most casinos don't like to flat bet people because they have to keep an eye on them constantly. I think my Baccarat action made them not totally ban me. Anyway, the shoes that are allowed mid-entry, you can come in whenever, and whatever you start betting you must continue betting, without dropping or raising your wager. At least that is what they did to me.

    Also these so called "streaks" everyone is talking about is total BS, and doesn't exist. Keep pressing on those "streaks" and I'm sure you will win millions of dollars.
     
  16. darrenfromindy

    darrenfromindy Low-Roller

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    I agree with Naturaleight. I've never been told to "flat bet"....but if it happens...it will more than likely be at an MGM-owned casino. That's how they politely deal with the problem before barring your play (or reading you the trespass act if you're non-compliant). I've witnessed first-hand a "flat bet" incident at Mandalay Bay a few years ago. The pit boss was very polite about it. I don't remember the spread or count, but the player just laughed and colored-up and left. There are numerous accounts of being "flat bet" on blackjack message boards and nearly all of them are at MGM-owned joints.

    To the poster who suggested "sitting out" when the count is not advantageous: Most "good rules" tables anymore restrict mid-shoe entry (there are a some exceptions) so that idea wouldn't work. BUT...if you were bold enough to try it AFTER politely being flat-bet...you're just asking to be barred (or escorted off the property) and I guarantee you they won't be as polite as they were previously.
     
  17. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Thanks makes total sense! I am dumb thinking otherwise
     
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