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Table Games First time Bacarat ...any tips

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Nittany1, Aug 28, 2012.

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  1. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Arriving at Aria Fri night for 5 days.
    In the past I have played about 80% and 20% BJ.I have wanted to try Bacarat but just never did it.
    I understand the rules but read conflicting suggestions on strategy.
    In BJ your moves are automatic based on basic strategy.If tracking your bets go up or down with some changes in basic strategy.

    In craps I make the same bets and press up on a hot table.
    The thing I have not figured out is how do you decide if you are going Banker or Player?
    Do you press after a win,two wins?Switch sides after losses.
    Any tips ae appreciated.
     
  2. socalvegasfan

    socalvegasfan Tourist

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    I am no expert, and I hardly ever play the game and if I do, I play very small. But from what I have learned from more seasoned players:

    Follow the streak. For example, if player is hitting a few in a row, it might be good to ride it out.

    Watch for patterns. Sometimes the hands come out in very observable patterns.

    Follow the person on the table who seems to be making the best "guesses," thus winning hands more consistently.

    That's what I know. I hope you do OK. Good luck. Cheers!
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    it's all a crapshoot and everybody has a different strategy. i like to follow patterns that develop in the shoe. could be a streak, could be a chop, could be second line, etc, etc. doesn't always work, but it's fun when it does work. other people just always play the streak or always play the chop regardless. still others always play one side no matter what. what works one shoe won't work the next shoe and vice versa. just have to pick something you like and go with it.

    however, definitely some of the best advice is to follow a hot player. if some guy just can't lose, bet whatever he's betting. on the flipside, if someone has bad vibes and just can't win, bet against him every hand.
     
  4. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Thanks guys.Looking forward to it.
     
  5. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    I play the pure streak strategy. Since baccarat doesn't really have any skill to it the way BJ does, I look at it as the shoe is either going to be streaky that session or it isn't, and that way I don't have to "worry" about missing the streaks when they do happen, or try to discern a pattern out of outcomes that are completely random - I figure streaks happen, hopefully they'll happen when I'm playing - and that's pretty much the end of my strategy.

    I look at it as being a pure luck game - the same as roulette - and since in roulette I always play the same spread of numbers every spin - so as not to get caught up in trying to "guess" which number is coming out each spin - and instead looking at it as "either my numbers are going to come out this session, or they're not" - so in baccarat, I look at it as it's going to be streaky, or it's not.

    I usually bet 3 units as a base bet, starting with whatever hand won the last hand - if it wins again, I up my bet to 4 units. I continue upping my bets [3-4]-6-8-12-16-20, continuing at a max of 20 until the streak breaks [I max at 20 because I usually play with $500 chips, so 20 units hits the table max of $10K on most tables I play - if you're playing a table where the max bet is more than 20 times your base unit, by all means consider keeping pressing until the streak breaks or you hit the table max]. Once the streak breaks, I immediately start over at 3 units on the other side, and so on and so on.

    Is it a "winning" strategy? Absolutely not. As far as I'm concerned, there is no true "winning" strategy in baccarat - it's basically betting on a coin toss. It's just the method I've gotten comfortable sticking with.

    I would say try a variety of different styles, see which one you feel fits your personality, and then run with it. There's no real "right" or "wrong" way to play baccarat.
     
  6. captainron62

    captainron62 VIP Whale

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    That is the best explanation I have hear yet. I am going to give the game a whirl this weekend. I am ready to try something different and B seems like an enjoyable game.
     
  7. Its Only Money

    Its Only Money Low-Roller

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    When the streak breaks do you immediately go to the other side? Is a push considered a break in the streak. I too have been interested in playing. I will probably sit down at a mini table the next time I am at the local joint.
     
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  8. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Thanks Jilly.
    A couple additional questions.After the 3 to 4 unit press do you go to 6 then 8 etc.
    Also same question as Its Only Money Posed.Is a push ignored or considered a break in the streak.
     
  9. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Dumb question

    I have never watched a game of baccarat, except what I've seen in movies.

    How many decks go into the shoe? Does it vary casino to casino, just like different shoes in BJ, or is there a standard # of decks? Does it change on those smaller tables?

    Just curious when I read all this stuff about streaks etc.
     
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  10. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    you can do what you want, but ties are pretty much always ignored. how quickly you press just depends on your level of comfort. a full press is doubling every hand, but that's dangerous of course because one loss and you lose back everything. a small press is just one unit per win, but that won't get you anywhere very fast. something in the middle is usually preferred.
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    always 8 decks.
     
  12. Boone

    Boone Tourist

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    Look for a mini bac. table to start with and sit down and bet table minimum. Ask the dealer questions and you will learn the basic rules and cards quick enough. Move up to the big table when you feel comfortable.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    This was one of the best explanation I've heard about this game, and I'm glad Jilly freely admitted that it ultimately is just a guessing game with no skill. But just because it is a guessing game there is still a tremendous amount of entertainment value available in working up a 'system' to guess by, (follow streaks, play against the streak, follow some choppy pattern, etc.) When it works out and you keep winning, you feel like Nostradamus!
     
  14. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    It is and excellent explanation. Add my vote to the "yes" column.

    Now, as to the "which side to bet? Streak or chop?" discussion:

    Some people use the avant dernier (sp?) method. Meaning "before the last," the idea is to keep track of the Banker/Player decisions and simply bet the side that one the decision immediately before that last one. (Sure, it's OK. They'll even provide a pad an pencil for your convenience. Makes a nice addition to the scrapbook, too.)

    That way, if the shoe is choppy, you are always switching sides, so as to take advantage of a choppy shoe. And should a streak on either Banker or Player develop, you'll be there for all but two decisions.

    Now, of course, this method is no more likely to win than any other, but at least you won't be endlessly second guessing yourself at the bar after you lose all of your money - you'll be sitting there cursing me for ever mentioniong it to you!!

    Good Luck and Best Wishes!
     
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  15. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    Thanks all for the compliments on the explanation :nworthy:

    Yes, my betting progression is 3-4-6-8-12-16-20 - I realize as I originally explained it, it might have gotten a little confusing and look like I went back to 3 again after 4, sorry about that.

    So, assuming Player had won the hand before [and I had been on the banker side on that hand] if the next 9 hands went PBBBBBBBB, I would be betting 3P, 4P, 3B, 4B, 6B, 8B, 12B, 16B, 20B

    Likewise, if the next 9 hands went PBBBPPBPB, I would be betting 3P, 4P, 3B, 4B, 6B, 3P, 4P, 3B, 3P.

    Playing this style, you need a fairly deep bankroll per session in order to ride out choppy stretches or choppy shoes. The theoretical payoff is that even just one good streak in a shoe or a session can make up for long stretches of chop. But again, a choppy shoe can kill your bankroll quick - so like I said, no guarantee that this will be a "winning" strategy, it's just a strategy. I've had nights where I've won huge and nights where I've gotten killed almost immediately.

    The idea behind the staggered progression [3-4-6-8, etc] as opposed to just a full press or a single unit press is that since streaks are never guaranteed to last, you're trying to bank some of the profit off of each winning hand in a streak to help preserve you bankroll for the inevitable stretches of chop - but at the same time, trying to overcome the HA and make hay when the sun shines during a streak by not flat betting it or only making single unit presses - kind of a middle ground. I think you'll find that most baccarat players - regardless of strategy in terms of streaks, patterns, one side, etc. - will use some sort of staggered betting progression for this same reason [Natedogg's gold betting progression plates, for example]

    There is an even more conservative progressive betting strategy for streaks that takes one back after a win, going 3-2-3-4-6-8-12-16-20, which is what I initially used to do when I first started playing [from what I had read in a book], but I found it much harder to get ahead betting that way and dumped the first two a long time ago and have never gone back to it.

    This is one area where I tend to be inconsistent and go with my gut based on how the shoe has been - if it's been a streaky shoe, I will tend to continue where I was in a progression the next hand after.

    So, for example if I was up to an 8 in a banker progression and got a tie and so far it had been streaky, I would probably do 8 units on banker again after the tie. But if the shoe had been on the choppier side, after a tie I usually go with 3 units on banker [even if the hand before the tie had been player] because I figure since banker has the ever so slight advantage over player, I give it the edge [likewise, if it is a fresh shoe with no previous hand to base my first bet on, my first bet is always on banker for the same reason].
     
  16. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Thanks again for the detailed explanations.I am planning to start a little conservatively and go up as I get more comfortable.
    I like the progressions you use Jilly and will try them.
    Is there a table at Aria that will go with a $300 starting bet or will I need to start at mini?
     
  17. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    most tables will be $100 min.
     
  18. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Having just returned from Aria, you will have no problem finding a $300 min table. That was the minimum on Saturday and I think Sunday nights (can't remember for sure). But daytime and on weeknights there were always $100 tables available. In fact, those were the more popular ones by far.

    A few othe suggestions if you are playing at Aria. It's a bigger room, which makes it a bit noisier/harder to hear (I had one very quiet dealer during a session and could barely hear her). If that bothers you, look for a table in the rear near the roulette wheels. The accoustics seem to be a little better back there. The dealers switch from day to day (I think all Aria dealers are trained on and deal two or three different games in the casino), so I would suggest playing at the tables with the better supervisors (Tony, Karen, and Jose Luis are three that come to mind).

    As for betting, I agree with the other posters regarding streaks. Personally, I play mosly bank just because the math is a little better on that side. But if there are three players in a row, I usually switch sides on the hope that I am catching a streak. Except for the one awful night I had at Bellagio on this past trip, that strategy worked well for me (hit a 12 player streak, and two different 10 bank streaks during the trip). Also hit a 21 out of 24 streak! Look for those and have fun
     
  19. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Returned from Aria a couple days ago and I meant to post earlier but forgot.
    First,Thanks to Jilly,Shifter and everyone for their ideas.
    I did play Bacarat twice and started with the 3 unit bets and went to 4-6 so on.
    Unfortunately I caught no streaks and just guessed wrong.
    I was playing somewhat conservative because I was taking a major 5 figure beating between craps and blackjack.
    Both times I took markers for 2K and both times they were tapped in 30 min.
    It was just not my week as I caught nothing.
    Twenty hours of play over 5 days ended up real painful.
    But back in Nov. for another shot.
     
  20. JillyFromPhilly

    JillyFromPhilly Tourist

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    Well, glad to hear you apparently haven't been discouraged from giving it another try in the future even though you took a beating this time. That's admittedly the biggest problem with the style of baccarat I play - I rarely have a session where I ride comfortably close to the middle - it's almost always either killing it or getting killed, depending on the shoe - but as anyone who's ever read any of my trip reports knows, I like to ride the rollercoaster when I play, so I guess that's why that style suits me best.

    Did you try out any other strategies or styles of play while you were there? Also, what kind of company did you have at the tables [if any] - for a newbie baccarat player, encountering the other players and their styles, customs, superstitions, etc. can be both intimidating and amusing.
     
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