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Table Games Eldon, BJ qestion

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jackincols, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. jackincols

    jackincols Guest

    Eldon, I saw your excellent response to the Dealer error BJ thread so I have a question to an incident I found myself in the middle of years back over at Rio.

    I am sitting at first base at a green chip min. table and, along with other players, a heavy black chip bettor is sitting one seat away from third base. It was a shoe game and the dealer had become accustomed to who knew what they were doing and who didn't, many times pulling out the "hit card" before a knowledgeable player called for it (was this the first mistake?).

    Anyhow the heavy hitter has $700 in play with a 6 showing against the dealer's picture card. Coming to him, the dealer pulls out the "hit card" at the same time the player puts his hand up and says, "Hold it". Now the dealer pulls back the hit card (2nd mistake?), but the damage had already been done. She had slightly turned the hit card as it came out of the shoe and I saw it was a 4. The guy guessed I had seen the card and asked me, "Do I want that card?" I looked at the dealer, but she gave no indication at all to help me in my predicament. Finally I just said, "I don't think it will hurt you". Having a 10 under the guy took the card for a 20. The dealer pulled out her buried card...an 8 with a win for the black chipper. He toked me 2 greens and play continued as if nothing happened.

    Now, Eldon, was correct procedure followed by the dealer? Specifically, should she have burned the card right after the guy said, "Hold it".? Anybody else found themselves in weird situations similar to this?
  2. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing tirement again and happily so....

    Feb 17, 2003
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Obviously I am not Eldon, but it would seem to me it would depend on the tips the black chip player was making. At the craps table when tipping the crew, there are times when odds are forgotten on a line bet and when hit are granted if consistently placed there by the player. It is one play and one pay-out. At a green chip table betting 700 $ seems higher than average but then again, if the player had been there for a period of time and was not a player dropping in and then jumping from table to table, I can see it.

    But I hear you. She was anticipating the play because she was bored with the process of dealing a shoe which would happen to most of us. She was probably wrong in the procedures but in the BIG picture, you could have pissed off a player you wanted to stay at the table by burning the card and providing a bust card.

    As an aside, we were playing once at the Gold Coast years ago with a spread on the table from 5 $ (minimum) to a 200 $ bet for the six of us. Dealer had A showing and proceeded to check the hole card and flip over a BJ.....No insurance was offered. Pit comes over and assesses the scene and asks if anyone wanted insurance. Everyone accepted the offer and it was a push all around. Not nearly the sum in $ you are describing but still a procedural error by the dealer.
    We were just here!
    Birthday + Holy Rollers.
  3. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

    Sep 20, 2010
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    There's something screwy about your story. If it's a shoe game, why does the player have one card face down? Shoes are always dealt with all player's cards face up.
  4. jackincols

    jackincols Guest

    bubbakitty, the guy had been playing awhile and was pressing his bets.

    WrongWayWade, I can only tell you this was shortly after Rio opened and there were definitely buried cards at shoe games back then, at least at that casino.

    Edited to add: Wade, upon further reflection and the supposition you're right about the players cards being up, it doesn't change the scenario I was faced with. If anything, it would add credence as to why the dealer came out with the hit card after seeing the black chipper's 16.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2013
  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Aug 8, 2012
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Yeah...a long time ago at the Stardust... two deck game, I was pressed (due to good count).
    I was dealt a J-9... dealer had 6 showing.

    I used to have a bad habit when playing a pitch game (this broke me of that habit) - I used to wait until the player ahead of me had picked up their cards before I ever picked mine up.
    Well, on this hand, I must have been distracted for an instant, because when I went to pick up my cards, the dealer was already to me. As I picked them up, it appeared very much (to her) like I was scratching for hit.
    As the card was coming from her, I held up my hand and proclaimed, "WHOA!"... but then Vegas buddy (who caught a glimpse), said - "you want it".
    Pit came over and asked me what I had. I told him.
    He then asked me if I wanted the card.
    Now, here is where trust comes in. Vegas buddy silently nods 'yes' to me.
    So I hit the hard 19 and get the two that he had seen.
    Everyone else was sandbagging on the dealer's 6.
    Had I not hit my 19, every other player would have lost to her.

    It can be a strange game at times!
    I'll see you fellow degenerates in late February!
  6. IWannaBeInVegas

    IWannaBeInVegas VIP Whale

    Jan 5, 2002
    Between here and there
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    At my casino, if the dealer (and we all are guilty) anticipates the play, pulls the card and you even think it was exposed , policy is to call the floor, they will offer the card to all remaining players and if nobody wants it, burn it. If it's been delivered, depending on the player and floor, they may say pull it and burn, or they may again offer it out. Key is to notify the floor of all mistakes.
    Tentative arrival:
  7. Eldon

    Eldon Low-Roller

    Apr 18, 2009
    Bellingham, WA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    When I dealt you called the floor for any mistake and let them make all decisions on that hand.

    Typically the floor would minimize concern by the big hitter and avoid any unhappiness by the rest of the table.

    Enlightened casinos know with any negative expectation game, the longer a player stays at the table, the more likely they are to lose money AND the better time they have the more likely they are to return.

    Unfortunately, not all casinos are enlightened.
  8. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Low-Roller

    May 2, 2013
    right behind you
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Excellent point! Well done sir.
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