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Driver's Ed..... And Right Of Way...Huh ?

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by Joe Strummer, Mar 20, 2014.

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  1. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    I had to set up a large room at my job -
    for a Driver's Education Session.
    During a break --
    I walked in and asked the teacher a "Right Of Way"
    question.
    I was a bit surprised at his answer --
    He didn't teach it as "Right Of Way" - a steadfast rule.
    He asked me about "my safety" in the situation, instead.
    ( my question was about an "off-set" 4 way intersection --
    * I'd have to draw a diagram to explain it perfectly *
    "The vehicle to the right, has the right of way, correct ?" I said.
    He answered, "Well, let's face it.....do you trust that rule ?...
    or do YOU yield and play it safe ?"
    *
    *
    Well.......this concerns me.
    If it isn't TAUGHT as a steadfast rule ....
    How is a new driver gonna learn it as a strict rule ?
    They won't !
    When I first learned.....it was an absolute rule.
    This creates something of a hazard.
    *
    And I wonder why so many "rules of the road" don't seem to apply anymore ?
    *
    Don't get me started on drivers not yielding, as they enter from
    the "on" ramp into highway traffic.
    Is this another rule that is glossed over, these days in Driver's Ed. ?
    *
    *
    And ever witness how EVERY rule of the road goes out the window -
    when people drive in a large parking lot ?
     
  2. dhlamar

    dhlamar Low-Roller

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    I'm kinda lost with your questions, in the 4 way intersection woudn't there be stop signs or traffic signals involved? And the on ramp situation vehicles getting on highway are to accelerate and merge onto traffic and vehicles getting off the highway are to deaccelerate and merge onto off ramp.
     
  3. DrLect

    DrLect Low-Roller

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    I have to wonder what set of credentials an individual would have to acquire to become a Driver's Ed instructor? Are they subject to driver's license review, background checks, and/or drug testing?
     
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  4. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    dhlamar -
    Don't try to understand my question -
    as I said, it's a bit too hard, for me to explain without
    a diagram.
    My point is the teacher's response.
     
  5. Ty

    Ty ?

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    I agree with you. I was taught driver to the right has the right of way.

    But I don't see that in real life, seems we just work it out in reality. If I'm at a four-way and the car across from me goes straight, I go too.

    Since the rule is not law, I suppose it has gone the way of flash bulbs.

    Now I have a question. Did the instructor teach "The left lane is the fast lane, don't sit in it if cars are piling up behind you"? (Referring to interstate highways.)
     
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  6. dhlamar

    dhlamar Low-Roller

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    Yea his response had me scratching my head also but I kinda think that's what is being taught nowadays, ever notice when someone gets to a 4 way stop sign before you and when you finally come to a complete stop it becomes a waiting game. You are waiting on them because they have the right of way but they are waiting on you I guess because they don't trust the rule.
     
  7. Ty

    Ty ?

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    If you're on the highway do you move over to allow the 'on ramp' cars some room?

    This is one of the 'rules of the road'. It's not a law, it is optional, it is a courtsey. It's one of the rules of the road I learned in highschool and from my father.
     
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  8. kitson

    kitson VIP Whale

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    i think i understand your question perfectly, joe.

    hopefully, maybe what the instructor did not communicate effectively is that, yes, he teaches that the car on the right at the unmarked intersection has the right of way, but he also teaches to drive defensively and to not just assume that the driver in the car on your left is smart enough to know and remember the rule too!
     
  9. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    I think we have a winning answer there!:thumbsup:
     
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  10. sweetcanadian

    sweetcanadian High-Roller

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    I asked my husband a question the other day, he is a truck driver, a good one. I said why is it that the person on the right has the right of way. He replied "because you always protect your passenger".

    Merging is a whole different ball game, i always thought that the person merging should only speed up and get in the lane if it was safe to do so. It seems most people think that it is expected that they just cut people off, minneapolis is good for mergers and everyone i saw just cut people off, not one ever stopped. I am surprised we did not see any crashes.

    I DO move over if it is safe for me to do so, so that they can get in.
     
  11. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    This is exactly right. My son just finished drivers ed last week actually and we had this conversation about 4 way stops. They teach it that way.

    I also tell my son, that he has to always assume that the other drivers aren't going to follow the rules and keep that in mind while driving. He made a right turn into traffic just the other day onto a 3 lane road. There was a driver in the middle lane coming up pretty quick. As that car was approaching us close, my son pulled into the right lane. I about had a heart attack. He said "but mom, the guy was in the middle lane...I was pulling into the right lane" I told him, don't assume that guy wasn't about to change lanes! He said "but he didn't have his signal on...."

    I can't tell you how many close calls I have ever had myself or seen because someone changed lanes without signaling. It's scary to drive out there, you have to be very aware at all times and err on the side of caution!
     
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  12. Jimbo338

    Jimbo338 VIP Whale

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    Hello everyone, it's Jimbo338. In real life I am a Driver Ed Instructor, now in my 40th year. First of all, there is a push in the US to have a national curriculum guide for Driver Education, making the course more universal. NH's curriculum for Crash Avoidance Driving was based on the Oregon model developed by the late John Harvey who when hired responded to the state's concern for a high teen crash and death rate. He did many things in little more than a decade to reduce the teen death rate in OR by 46%, one of which was their Curriculum which he chose not to copywrite.

    I took Driver Ed in 1964, and it was far different than what we present today. It was more rules of the road, and basics in the car. Many people did not have a car back then and the roads were less traveled and no Interstate. Today's teens are more coordinated and generally have more experience driving w wheelers, snow machines etc. as well as games. They also tend to have more practice time with their parents.

    Those of you with teens should never underestimate how important your job is as a role model. They may resist but they do listen and OBSERVE.

    The question about training was asked. It differs very much from state to state. Some states require a good driving record and a half dozen hours of training. In NH for a standard certificate you must have a valid license free of any moving violations for at least 3 years (longer if any DWI or other serious convictions). In addition you must have 18 credits in Safety Education (pertaining to Dr. Ed.) pass a written and driving test and criminal and Motor Vehicle records check. Then like other teachers we must do a minimum of 75 hours of approved training to be recertified every 3 years. You must work full time for someone and meet minimum classroom and in-car hours minimum to be eligible for a commercial school license. This year I had to obtain 2 MV and Criminal record checks since I renewed both my school license and my certification as an instructor. Our classrooms and cars have to meet Dept. of Safety standards and inspections. In NH all of our Driver Ed Instructors have the same standards and requirements whether they teach in a secondary school or commercial school.

    Getting back to the initial subject of intersections, the law recognizes the police to have jurisdiction, if none, then one would obey signs and traffic lights. In the absence of both, then we have Right of Way law which is basically common sense. In a 4 way intersection with no traffic control a car aready in the intersection has the right of way over a car just entering. If two cars are in the intersection at about the same time, a car going straight has the right of way of a car turning (turning cars must yield to oncoming traffic). And if 2 cars are entering an uncontrolled intersection from different highways at about the same time, the car on the left yields to the right. These should be in all the state's manuals.
    More likely these become problematic at a 4 way stop.

    I suspect the original question probably had to do with one of the roads being offset. One of the most important things parents of teens should do is establish a set of rules for using (or having) the car. When it can be used. Who is allowed in it and when. Them calling in when they arrive, or call to say they will be late. etc. Death among our teens is 4 times greater at night. When a friend gets in a car the chance of a fatal accident doubles but when 2 or more get in the chance of a fatal is 5 times greater. Teens who buy into the system have fewer accidents Have to pay all or part of driver ed or part or all of the insurance), and have fewer accidents driving a family car than a car of their own.

    Remember that teens think that they are teen feet tall and bulletproof. They don't believe me when I tell them they have a blind spot, and they drive right up to a stop sign at a busy intersection and look instead of half a dozen checks approaching for a start. Then they figure it is clean cause they looked 5 seconds ago. We were the same but while you can finish Driver ed in a couple of month it takes an average new driver a YEAR to develop good eye patterns......learning how to look and what to look for. Continue to drive with your teen. The fact that they passed DE and passed the DMV test doesn't mean they are ready for everything and anything that can happen. They are too trusting and too little experienced and you cannot tell them that.

    It seems that people merging don't understand that they have to yield, instead they race like it was a runway. New drivers often let their guard down in the world's most dangerous place to drive (in my opinion0...parking lots like convenience stores where they roll in at 35mph pas the gas pumps to buy whatever, like no one would ever pull out or walk while they are driving at a speed that would require about 100 feet to stop.

    Many times when discussing the rules instructors including parents , stress courtesy , like telling a new driver to let the car not yielding in a merge
    situation to go. They may think you meant they have the ROW. Simply state that they don't but it isn't worth the risk of an accident or possible injury so it is just a better thing to do. Teens want to be good drivers, and they want structure; it's just not cool to be taught!

    I hope I shed some light on the subject. We survived somehow and now we know how our parents got those gray hairs.

    Jimbo338 d/b/a Granite State Auto School
     
  13. wpete

    wpete High-Roller

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    Exactly. I will always yield to the right side driver at a 4 way stop. And just to make sure we're on the same page, I'll give him/her a 'go ahead' wave with my hand.
     
  14. sweetcanadian

    sweetcanadian High-Roller

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    Good post Jimbo. In my province they changed the rules. it take 2 years to obtain a full license without restrictions for any new driver regardless of age.

    9 months of learners, 15 month intermediate stage (minimum) then full stage for 3 years before you are fully off restrictions.

    While in intermediate stage the person in the driver seat MUST have a license for minimum of 3 years and you are limited on hours and passengers.
     
  15. Julie888

    Julie888 High-Roller

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    Good write up Jimbo.

    When it was time for my kids to get their licences, they had to pay for the course themselves. After one year with no accidents, tickets or bad reports from anyone, they got half the money back. The rest came after their second year claim free.
     
  16. Jimbo338

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    Canada, from what I have heard seem stricter and do not discriminate by age with regard to new drivers. In the US the trend is a graduated license system where there are restrictions which are lifted as the new driver gains experience. In NH, we are the only New England state without a permit system but students must complete a minimum of 30 classroom hours, 10 hours In-Car with an instructor and 40 hours documented practice verified by parents or guardian, 10 of which must be after dark. Teens are not allowed on the road between 1 and 4 am until age 18, and new drivers can carry only 1 person, not a sibling in the car for the first 6 months unless there is an adult in the car 25 or older. In addition, any person who fails the Licensing Test at DMV 3 times has his/her operating privledges suspended for 1 year and cannot even practive drive. They can request a hearing, and regardless of age, may be required to take the course required for teens under 18, or, if they passed the written but not driving part, may be required to obtain 10 hours of Instruction from a licensed Commercial Driving School in order to retake the test again. In NH, Driver Education is not required of those 18 or older who pass the written and driving parts of the test.

    Jimbo338
     
  17. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    We have nothing but courteus drivers in NJ

    We here in NJ believe that you should always yield to the other driver as a matter of safe vehicle operation. People here go out of their way to yield to other drivers and smile and wave to each other. When I return from a drive I feel relaxed and just full of love for my fellow man.
     
  18. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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  19. Joe

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    I love satire. :thumbsup:
     
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  20. sweetcanadian

    sweetcanadian High-Roller

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    WOW Jim, that seems pretty trusting.
     
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