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Downtown Grand, The Strip Comes to Downtown

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels & Casinos' started by Ben Jammin, Nov 11, 2013.

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  1. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    I was really looking forward to trying out the Downtown Grand. However after having read about the recent changes on the payouts for VP I must reconsider.

    Se vpFREE2

    According to Casino City Times the renovation/transformation into from the Lady Luck to the DG cost over 100 million dollars, with an additional 100 million in development cost to the surrounding area. (Thanks Oscar!) That's low in comparison to some of the Strip properties and seems to fall in line with the recent changes The Fitz to "The D", (I've heard the Fremont will be closing for renovations) and the Plaza's ongoing upgrades. Will Binion's remodel too?

    Who's next?

    The talking heads are comparing this new (did I say new?) property to the Golden Nugget, as the D hasn't yet achieved that Stip in Downtown status.

    Can Downtown Las Vegas support the level of casino resort? For my money iif I'm going to go upscale I'd just as soon stay on the Strip. Let's just hope they get the message and offer some playable gaming with decent payouts and liberal rules, as well as outstanding drink service. They had better!

    Personally I don't think they are going to attract the type of demographic they are shooting for.

    Hey, I can walk to Main Street Station in three minutes flat, and that's exactly what I will be doing.

    See Ya!


    .
     
  2. mjames1229

    mjames1229 VIP Whale

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    Didn't we kill this horse on another thread?
     
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  3. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Why was the other thread closed? I thought there was a lot of good discussion on it.
     
  4. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Fremont

    I saw your post Ben, and I don't know where you heard the Fremont was closing for renovations, but I just got an email back from a Boyd manager there, saying there is no truth to that story.
     
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  5. mjames1229

    mjames1229 VIP Whale

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    We were on the mall last Monday night when they shooed us off (in no uncertain terms... not the friendliest PA announcement I've ever heard). The mall was closing for installation of the Slotzilla zip lines. I was closed third shift during last week, and I believe again this week.

    Not sure if that's what Ben was describing.

    It was a headache, as after midnight, you couldn't cross from Fremont to Golden Nugget, you had to walk around the canopy to cross the street.
     
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  6. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Oh, perhaps I misunderstood. I thought he was referring to the Fremont hotel/casino remodeling to become more like the D or Grand.

    I am aware of that and Fremont STREET is supposed to be back to normal after the 14th.
     
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  7. ruralhipster

    ruralhipster Low-Roller

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    I like it ergo I'm the target Demographic

    This whole: "the Grand will fail since I don't like it" banter is a little silly. For the Grand to be a success it only has to carve a small niche out of the downtown market. Will it make have adjustments as it goes? Probably. They are trying for a small share of the mid-roller Asian market, that hasn't developed yet but it might. The food options will expand and change in the next year, the pool will open and has the capacity to be a night venue for bands, shows etc.

    If I was to guess at a target Demo for the property it would be slightly younger and slightly more affluent than a typical Downtown casino. Let's say 30-60 year old, solidly middle to upper middle class, and a little more adventurous than average.

    Personally comparing the downtown properties to Strip Properties is a bit silly but here it goes: The Golden Nugget is a Bellagio/Wynn/Mirage wannabe, the Downtown Grand would be middle-american version of the Cosmo and the D would be The Quad/O'Sheas with renovated rooms.

    The DT Grand has designed the casino to generate revenue. That's why there isn't any full pay VP. They know that that market exists within the older and already paid for casinos like MSS, Cal, etc. for people that only play at full pay. They (the max-value players) tend to seek out the best pay tables and will migrate to those casinos anyway. The slot machines on the floor at the DTG were almost all penny machines with 2-6 dollar maximums because that's what makes the most money with the lowest exposure. (In a purely subjective comment I would guess the machines paybacks were set in the downtown/off-strip range as I felt I had a reasonable amount of play for dollar-in and if I wasn't a bit degenerate I would have finished roughly even.) The table games offered decent but not exceptional games at reasonable limits once again targeting a slightly upmarket downtown visitor.

    As someone who fell in love with downtown through the Cabana Suites at the El Cortez, the Downtown Grand was targeted straight at me. I have the fiscal ability to stay at a mid - upper level property on the strip if I wanted to but prefer something a little more funky and homey with good food options, a fresh stylish room, an easy to navigate property and a casino that offer lots of ridiculous penny slots, with enough variety of table games.

    That said I do miss playing Keno having breakfast at The Cortez, but it's only a 5 minute walk.
     
  8. buffalo

    buffalo Low-Roller

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    More than anything else about the Downtown Grand, I'm interested in how and if they're going to offer any comps to players. I got a small amount of free play when I signed up and I got a little over 8200 points playing slots and VP the one night I spent there. I'm guessing points you get 2 pts per dollar of coin in on slots, but I never checked.

    Right now there's no way to log into the Grand website and see a players status or check on offers, I assume I might get an email from them. They may get that feature on their site sometime. We plan on returning to downtown in the spring and would like to stay there again. I had as much success playing slots there as anywhere else on Fremont St.
     
  9. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    Good post. Well thought out and some really good original points.

    I agree with a lot of what you are saying, except for the fact I don't think it will work because a bunch of us who are dead-on in their demographic market will have no reason to go there instead of Cosmo.

    Also I think the "we don't like it" is a misinterpretation. I think we REALLY LIKE it and therefore want it to succeed. I would love nothing more than to have a very nice downtown option with a legit pool.

    The VP doesn't have to be full pay, it just can't be worse than Cosmo. Which it is. If 9/6 is full pay and and they are offering 7/5 , there are a lot of options in the middle.

    But I'm realizing you must be right in what they are thinking. The gaming is going to be low payback and they are going to compete in other areas.
     
  10. macker69

    macker69 Canadian Ambassador for Sully's Bar

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    Not too mention their location is not ideal. Like BeeeJay I would be right in their wheelhouse demographic as well. I've been comped at Cosmo, Wynn, Caesars but the fact still remains that no matter how much money I spend I still want gambling odds that are at least in line with the strip. Also to compare the D to Osheas is offensive.
     
  11. Funkhouser

    Funkhouser In Charge of the Big Door

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    Being on Odgen is probably the worst thing that place has going for them.
    I think their demographic is more early 20's to early 30's, the crowd who would go party at Cosmo but the prices keep them away or prefer a trendy bar scene. The bargain hunters of club / bar crowd.

    My wife is from CA, and her nieces / friends from the OC love the Fremont East bars and corridor along with the cheap hotel rooms downtown. One niece just skipped the strip and had bachelorette party in downtown bar crawl.

    I think MOB bar and the furnace look really cool, and I like the place. It's just as easy to stay there and then walk over a block to better odds.
     
  12. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    yeah i might even be up for that if the pool situation pans out.....especially given their cheap prices.

    best of both worlds, strip quality hotel, and walkable to the great gambling.

    my only question is how does this make Downtown Grand money? Given the room quality and cost it doesn't seem like the relatively low room rates can support profitability without a contribution from other areas.

    I guess food/bev could end up contributing in a Cosmo-esque way. And that pool deck does look like it has some major potential.

    Also maybe they have deep enough pockets to lose money while growing the target areas.
     
  13. macker69

    macker69 Canadian Ambassador for Sully's Bar

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    BeeeJay I would put those new suites at Golden Gate we got against the rooms we`d get a DTG any day. Plus we are on the FSE and have full pay Boner Deluxe. I mean this topic has been beaten to death though. For every article that people agree with there is always someone who is going to have a differing opinion. Then it turns into an educated debate, then someone trolls, then someone posts a picture of a woodshed, the trolls posts get deleted and the thread gets shut down. I think the agreement is that people who are not gambling oriented or should say gambling educated like many of us may give DTG a chance and that`s more than fine; however, it is my opinion that based on location and the gambling prices I can`t see it thriving, but that`s just my opinion.
     
  14. macker69

    macker69 Canadian Ambassador for Sully's Bar

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    I just can`t see myself deviating from the strip during pool season, but that could change with time.
     
  15. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    It looks like a potential big pool scene, and if that were combined with good gaming it would have the potential to pull us in, at least for a try.

    If it could be a cheaper Wynn, Cosmo it would be appealing. Of course as long as we both continue to get comped at both Wynn & Cosmo its gonna be real tough to get us to pay to stay downtown.

    I'm starting to see their target market now. Second tier daylife, clubbing, hipsters, guys in Fedoras, etc. Gaming way down the list. Makes sense to put in pricey food and bad gambling for that target market. Get em on $11 pool drinks and those pool deck live Nickellback concerts at night.

    I'm actually kinda glad its a hike from FSE.:evillaugh
     
  16. Guy

    Guy Low-Roller

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    What are they doing with the road part of 3rd Street? It is the main way for cars to get to the casino valet or is it more for people to wander between the existing restaurants (Trip Geo, H'n'H etc) and DTG?

    At weekends I can see them closing it to traffic and having their own 'scene' with music/outdoor drinking/hanging out as a 3rd Downtown venue (after FSE and Fremont East).
     
  17. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Facts

    The DT Grand is a CIM development group property. They are huge and as far as I can see this is their first venture into Las Vegas Gaming.

    The hotel's casino gaming is leased to "Fifth Street Gaming" which owns and operates over 50 restaurants and bars in the Las Vegas area including:
    Triple George Grill
    I love burgers
    Lobster ME
    Little Macau Ultra Tavern
    Mob Bar
    Daily Kitchen & Wellness Bar
    The Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf
    Jamba Juice
    Lucy’s Bar & Grill
    Cadillac Joe’s
    Hometown Kitchen

    My research indicates this is their first venture into the Casino Gaming market. So, they have to make their revenue from gaming, not from the other profitable enterprises available to other singularly owned casinos. Recent studies indicate gaming is only a part of casino revenue now.

    I'll make an assumption that they took over Lady Luck's old gaming license.

    So, they are new not only to Gaming but also to the Downtown Mindset.

    Why does anyone go Downtown rather than the Strip?

    A less expensive Las Vegas experience including lower budget gambling as well as accommodations. If they think they are going to lure away the hip 20 and 30 something crowd away from the Strip they might want to think again.It's more that just the Hip pool scene, and that is seasonal. It's about the whole aura, the nightclub scene and the Strip Vibe.

    So, I wish them well but you won't see me there any time soon. I can live with 8/5 Jacks or Better Video Poker at the bar if I'm getting my drinks comped but anything less (See vpFREE2 for payback schedules) and maybe a $10 dollar Black Jack table as long as it's 3/2 payback on BJ and DAS allowed if it's a multi-deck game. Otherwise there are just too many better alternatives at the established casinos just over on Fremont.

    See Ya !
     
  18. fugsworth

    fugsworth Tourist

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    I think you're exactly right, because you just described me to a 'T' and I've been aching to stay at the Grand ever since I saw the first pictures. The vibe I get is "like the Cosmo, but less noisy/expensive/pretentious". That's everything I want in a hotel.
     
  19. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    They had their official "grand opening" on tuesday, 11/12/13.



    http://www.lasvegassun.com/vegasdeluxe/2013/nov/12/downtown-grands-official-opening-today-first-downt/



    While their demographic is the 20 somethings I am not sure if that crowd can sustain the place IMHO. While they are trying to remake downtown to draw in the younger crowd they may be losing business from the older crowd who will stay away because of the younger crowd (bad paytables, etc.). I feel the same way about fremont east, while I stay at the EC I don't frequent any of the places in the area (esp the clubs).


    anyway, we've beaten this place to the ground, if you like it then give them your business, if you don't then there are many places to play downtown. they set up their own business model (catering to the young crowd) so if they want to have bad paytables, etc. and feel they can thrive off the crowd that will play on those tables (and visit their clubs, etc.) then they will have to live and die with that model (until they realize that it might not work downtown and change their model).

    Case in point, the plaza is still trying to find their niche; right now their casino isn't filled as other downtown casinos and nothing they have done has changed the minds of downtowners to play there. I think the DTG will go the same way IMHO but you never know, if the 20 somethings and others fill the place and give them good profits they will look like geniuses, if not they will probably be grouped with the same geniuses that decided to try to make vegas more of a family oriented place, lol.
     
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