1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Dice players: 1 vs lots of numbers?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by fadetheseven, Dec 21, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fadetheseven

    fadetheseven High-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    732
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    I've been a long time dice player and have been addicted to betting on as many numbers as my bankroll allowed. That has mostly meant single units on the inside with a double odds passline bet. We've had the experience of catching a monster where you've got all these numbers stacked to the ceiling but in truth it never happens enough. That's what got me hooked on the game and betting across so many numbers. Many years later, it's obvious these monsters are elusive and never come around when you need them most.

    My last trip I tried just betting pass with 5x odds and assumed it wasn't going to be fun. Of course it was choppy and I'd win some and lose some. Surprisingly, having my entire bet spread locked in on one number kept me more entertained than I would have thought.

    When considering house edge, this is the mathematically sound strategy. Having multiple numbers just exposes you to the same edge on each of those bets. It also lets you hit break even much faster on each shooter since you don't have to rely on multiple hits to cover your initial spread. The obvious downside is that the dice could pound a number you aren't on.

    I'm heading to Vegas in a couple days and am considering sticking with a single number for my craps play. I'm playing at Main Street with 20x odds. I'm planning on a $200 per session buy in and going $5/25 PL/odds. If this doesn't go well I'll probably drop the odds to $15. Of course I have a pressing strategy that throws caution to the wind. Gotta maintain some level of degen, amirite?
     
  2. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    4,566
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    001
    I would stick with $5 pass line backed with 2x, then each time a pass is hit, press it accordingly (go to 4x, 8x, 16x, 20x)
    Mathematically, there's no "right" bet at craps...it's whatever happens to be rolling, and whatever gives you the most pleasure.
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  3. fadetheseven

    fadetheseven High-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2011
    Messages:
    732
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    It's a negative expectation game. We all know there is no way to guarantee a win, only a way to minimize edge.

    2x odds makes more sense from a bankroll preservation standpoint. That gives 13 vs 6 betting units. I'm just going to try and see if it's still fun or becomes a grind. I'm just curious to know if anyone else has made the same change in play and still enjoy the action.
     
  4. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    4,566
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    001
    I've played every way imaginable, and if the table is "lively", no matter how you play, you'll have fun.
    FWIW: I play $5 + single odds now, and get the same excitement...
    Like I said, if it's a fun table, it's a fun table, period.
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  5. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    3,587
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    I've experienced similar disappointments by betting across lately. Like you mentioned, those heaters don't come often enough.

    My last trips found me betting pass line/odds and placing 6/8. If things go well I might go 22 or 44 inside.

    If I'm playing at MSS, I bet a nickel on the passline and if the number is 6 or 8 I'll back it up for a quarter or more. Then I'd place the sister for 30. If the number turns out to be 5,9,4, or 10 I just bet double odds and place the 6 and 8 for 12 each.

    I found if I'm lucky with the above I start to revert back to betting across. I guess I'm a hopeless degenerate because I love to press my place bets and the excitement of watching them hit over and over again.

    Hope your trip turns out a fruitful one!
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  6. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    12,916
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    36
    I only play just the pass line if I'm trying to conserve my bankroll for my roll. I, just about always, go double odds on my pass line, but found myself bumping that up this last trip on a very warn table at Cosmo.

    But, I really don't feel like I'm in the game unless I have at least 2 or 3 numbers working for me... pass line and the 6/8.
     
  7. thestugot

    thestugot Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    273
    Location:
    Chicago
    I have played for years and have gone through many "strategies". I have found one thing that is a constant. I have consistent winning sessions when there are enough hardways made. I believe getting 7 or 9 to 1 on your money in this game is a good bet. Lately, I've been placing the four for $25 and placing a hard four for $25. I sometimes don't play the pass line. I instead buy numbers I want. Seems like every number hits before the point is made and then the dreaded 7 shows up.
     
  8. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    4,566
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    001
    Yup...I have to agree there..
    The last time I was at MSS playing craps (with fellow VMB'ers), hard ways were a rolling...
    I've done that same way too...$25 buy 4&10, with $25 on Hard4&10...when those hard 4/10's come up, its gooood money.
    But with that, you HAVE TO have a $1000 buy in
    HOWEVER, at MSS, you can buy the 4/10 for $5 and only pay 25c (special chips for that)
    So try that PPE...
    If not, then $6 6/8, with $1 hard 6/8
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  9. yoyoseven

    yoyoseven Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    Well, your own responses have hinted at the true answer: it depends on your goal. If you're looking to to catch one monster roll and make enough on that roll to go home a winner for the weekend, then spread your bets and press early and often. If you're looking to preserve your bankroll, play on just one or two numbers.

    I can't tell you how many times I've seen a shooter throw a monster while only betting the pass line. While everyone else is whooping it up and making bank, the poor shooter makes just a few bucks waiting to make a pass.

    It all comes down to timing and luck. By timing, I mean happening to be at a table when the dice are rolling in a way that fits the strategy you are employing at that moment....... and getting the hell out of Dodge after the monster roll!
     
  10. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    11,309
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    175
    My craps playing has decreased dramatically over the last 5 years or so. But, I tried the one number with max odds and I'm bored. I need 4 numbers minimum working. Otherwise, it seems everyone around me is winning and I'm doing nothing but waiting for that one point to hit.

    Now the reality is that I'm saving money while the others are chasing, but it's still boring to only have one PL number. Just my two cents. I can't stand at the table and only have one number going.
     
    Christmas
  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    With a buy-in of $200 I would probably do something like the following.

    Pass w/odds
    1 unit on both 6 & 8. Collect on the first and press on the 2nd hit.
    Place $1 on the hard 6 & 8.
    After a few rolls, place a unit on what ever number the shooter seems to be hitting.
     
  12. mjames1229

    mjames1229 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,160
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    I am very similar. I play 3x 4x 5x odds, same 6/8 strategy (if the pass is 6 or 8, I will have a Come bet with 3x.4x.5x odds)

    I've started playing $1 for all hardways, with a full parlay if once hits. I take the second and parlay the third. Still waiting for the fourth since I started doing this...
     
    Super Bowl with my son
    2017 USBC Open Championships
  13. arrgy

    arrgy Tourist

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages:
    39
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Wow..simply wow. Place (not Buy) the 4 for $25 and then place (not bet) the hardway and watch the money come in...that's the advice you get. No wonder why people get cleaned playing this game.

    First, even though the laws of probability and math say otherwise, the pass line is not a good bet for the reason that it is the only contract bet on the table, meaning you can not take it down. You are talking about making a $5 flat bet with 5X times at a casino that offers 20X odds and you have only $200 in your bankroll. That's 6 line bets. Why bother going to a casino with 20X odds? But that is besides the point.

    There are three ways to win at this game. One, bet the don't side and grind it out. Two, make as few bets as possible and when you one nice roll occurs you leave and never come back. Three, you win small amounts of place bets that you don't leave up there. This is what you do..bring $400 with you for your sessions at a $5 table. Don't bet the line (unless you want to shoot). Once a point is established, go inside with one unit on each number (5,6,8,9) You wait for 3 rolls collect any winnings that you may have (either $7, 14, or 21). Then if the seven has not showed up, you come down off of everything, and wait for the next shooter. Take your profit for that person, and do the exact same thing for the next shooter. If a 7 out occurs you can repeat with one unit, or what I do is double up to 2 units for the next shooter. If that shooter has made a number I collect the $14, keep it up for another two rolls then take everything down. Reset the bet with the next shooter at one unit. If with 2 units this person sevens out, I try one more time with the same two units, and then walk to another table if I lose to that person.

    Unless you plan on leaving after one win, you can not sustain a profit if you keep your money up on the table all of the time, this is what kills Pass Line Betters and Place Betters.

    By the way 78% of all money made at a craps table is made from the Hardways and the single roll bets like the Field.
     
  14. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    4,566
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    001
    Devil's advocate here Arrgy...
    What if you walkers up to the table and it went PSO, three times..then you went to another table, same story... PSO three times...
    You're now down around $200...playing your way, it'll take a streak of 10 decent shooters to make that money back..
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  15. bedaniels

    bedaniels Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    403
    Location:
    Ohio
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    This happened to me once last trip but I was betting $660 on the inside $150 on 5/9 and $180 on 6/8. Ouch! Cost me nearly $2k.

    Normally I will go $660 on the inside for a hit or two then drop my total bet on the inside to the amount I won usually just short of $210 or $420. I lock in a small win for that shooter then press each hit $25-$30 from there. No pass line play at all unless I'm shooting. I am superstitious and will turn off all bets for 1 roll after craps number is rolled, the dice go off the table, or if there is an issue at the table leading to negative energy. Using this type of play I managed to overcome the $2k loss and finished up almost that much for the trip. I enjoy playing this way and it works for me but you do have to be able to handle an ass kicking stomach churning loss.
     
  16. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,894
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    I grind it out every day at work.
    In Vegas I am on vacation to have fun. Pass Line with odds, place bets and hardways!!!!!!!!!:beer:
     
  17. Hawaiianmark

    Hawaiianmark Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Thats so classic.

    :peace:
     
  18. JB in MN

    JB in MN Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    minneapolis
    Actually, Hawiianmark, I think LV_Bound's line might be more classic. I find myself grinding it out and at the end of the trip feeling disappointed that I wasn't more aggressive.

    I make two or, if I'm lucky, three trips to Vegas a year and spend the other 355 days building my BR, reading this board, and fantasizing about that huge win. Beginning to think that LV_Bound is on to something.
     
  19. Hawaiianmark

    Hawaiianmark Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    311
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Assured. In 19 days Im hoping you hit EVERYTHING you bet coin on!

    Im guilty of being less than agressive. Im no big wheeller; but have been lucky enough on quite a few rolls and rollers.

    Had a 51 min roll at MSS; probably could have made much more $$ but I had more fun than a whore at shore leave with the RIMPAC in town.

    Besides bets for dealers (and appropo behavoir at the tables) Im sure my ratings are much more lucid than should be.

    Its fun; its gaming; Im there to enjoy; not pad my pockets, but hell a pillow on the arse is nice!
     
  20. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,880
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    This number would not surprise me as hardways and props have significant house edges...but do you have a link to back this up?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.