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Table Games Dice Control Gurus

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by chonglosaxon, Jul 22, 2014.

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  1. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    I was told that the more the dice tumble, the greater chance of dreaded coming up. Meaning if they hit the back wall and roll more, this increases the chances of it coming up.

    Is this a myth? Any truth to this theoey or total bs??

    tia
     
  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    It would be BS.

    The dice are neither sentient or alive, therefore they are incapable of determining their own outcome or making a judgement call based upon an event like whether or not they hit the wall or if they roll or not.
     
  3. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I would like to believe in dice control.

    The idea is to throw the dice so they stay together in flight and only spin on one axis hit the table bounce lightly off the back wall and come to a rest. The more they spin the more random the roll which is not in our favor.

    Frank Scoblete's book is Beat the crap out of the casinos ( http://www.amazon.com/Beat-Craps-Out-Casinos-Play/dp/156625213X). He was in breaking vegas with the dice dominator.

    If it works it would take lots and lots of practice.
     
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  4. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    :popcorn


    this will be interesting
     
  5. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I'd like to believe in it too. However as someone who sets the dice a certain way I know it isn't something consistently done.

    Does it work sometimes? Yes.

    I am able to nail hardways when using the hardway set and when I use the two-V set I can hammer outside numbers...but only when I get a perfect throw or two. All it takes is one little deviation and its over.
     
  6. nado

    nado Tourist

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    While I believe every throw is a random event, I will admit that I have had better positive variance when playing with dice setters. I also find playing with a group of dice setters more enjoyable because most tend to have what I consider proper craps etiquette (know the rules, know proper bets, keep their hands up, don’t unnecessarily interrupt the game, don’t crowd into someone shooting the dice, etc.).

    Sometimes the stickman attempts to speed up a really slow setter. I have yet to see any setter be barred from shooting or have the dice taken away. This tells me that the house is probably not terribly worried.
     
  7. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Some sweat the money joints will hassle people. I enjoy breaking the pit bosses stones at Casino Royale when they're sweating the money. Adds to my Vegas enjoyment.

    Agreed on people knowing the etiquette. Most setters or rhythm shooters know what's up and they're ready to shoot and keep the game flowing. I consdier myself a rhythm shooter and not a setter even though I have my sets I use.

    I compare it to playing baseball and having a routine one goes through prior to seeing a pitch. Adjust gloves, cup, dig in right foot first, etc...

    When I am shooting (I prefer stick left first or second spot) I will watch the dice as they come to me so I know how to flip them to whichever set...grab the dice and make sure they're even and off I go.

    The people who annoy me are the prolonged shooter. At my local spots there are people who will roll the dice backwards in front of them to eliminate sevens or see the number they want...then set...then move them in a circle three times...then breathe deep...then shoot.
     
  8. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    If you are talking dice "influencing" you need to clarify further.
    If tossed properly and both tumble the same amount then in theory no.
    But if one die were to tumble more it would be sort of like tossing the dice and one rotate more than the other then in theory yes.

    Using the 3 V or 2 V set if one of the die were to tumble two extra times you get the 7. This is where the thinking comes into play about the extra tumbling of the dice increasing the chance for a 7.
     
  9. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    When I use the 3-v I notice that when I seven out i hit the 6 and 1 most of the time.

    Because I am Rain Man like on some things I tend to noticed patterns and I seven out on 6-1 the most, 4-3 second most and rarely 5-2.
     
  10. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    When it comes to dice control, I think that Sam Grafstein had it right in "The Dice Doctor."

    He said, "..the player can set the dice. Kiss the dice. Play with the dice, and even RUB THEM BETWEEN HIS NUTS. Just roll the dice 20 inches. Give me ONE BOUNCE, and I'l personally book your bets all day."

    The house knows this and they agree. While not exactly Sam's criteria, I think its reasonable to surmise they subscribe to the "Just throw the dice all the way to the end of the table and we'll book your bets all day" school of thought.

    Does dice control work enough to worry the casinos? I think the results speak for themselves.

    Just look at all of the elaborate measures that the casinos have taken in blackjack to thwart counters and protect that game. Mulitlpe deck shoes, continuous shuffling machines, and the like. Is there anything like that in craps?

    I've seen one table in one casino with a ridge in the center of the layout to thwart a blanket roll, but other than that - nothing. If the house was concerned about controlled shooting, wouldn't they alter the game in some way? If thier profits were at stake they'd certainly have installed countermeasures on the table like some sort of inclined surface between the end of the table and the back of the pass line, or some other form of distruption besides just a flat felt surface. Or how about a dice cup like the backgammon players use?

    The casino mangement understands their edge and calculates their hold for every shift. When casinos start making the shooters roll from a cup, I'll believe that controlled shooting is some kind of factor in reducing the house edge in craps.
     
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  11. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    As I said in this other thread

    Lots of discussion on Dice setting in this thread...

    http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?106140-I-m-cleaning-up-on-All-Small-All-Tall
     
  12. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Since I like to stand stick left (or right if my spot is taken) I've felt that little hump in the center and when I asked the stick wtf that was he said it was to discourage sliding. I didn't know that was possible. And then that scandal hit Wynncore with the people who were dice sliding and I it clicked.

    I still don't get how they'd get away with that!
     
  13. 4Eyes

    4Eyes Low-Roller

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    Curious that those that profess to be "dice controllers" or "dice influencers" -- and sell books and videos professing same -- have not produced ONE video that shows a dice roll that flies trough the air, bounces off of the table and the back wall, and never turns off-axis thus eliminating two of the six outcomes of each die.
     
  14. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    or that they are still writing books about their "methods" and not using the method in the casinos to make millions...
     
  15. Gofaster87

    Gofaster87 Low-Roller

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    While I think its possible to do dice control, only 1 in a million people that attempted it could pull it off. The steadiness, concentration and muscle control required is too much for most people. Besides that, it would take several years of daily practice.
     
  16. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Over several years the change in motor function would negate any benifit gained from the repetition and practice.
     
  17. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    Is the inverse true that the noob who strolls up and heaves the dice as hard as they can off the wall and creates a great deal more tumbling a better person to play the dont?
     
  18. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    No...its all random...regardless of who is rolling...


    You should play the dont since that is the "better" bet...
     
  19. chonglosaxon

    chonglosaxon MIA

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    Difference in do/dont is negligible. Not to mention, Playing the dont also requires a larger bankroll which mist people do not want to fork over.

    Honestly, i love playing the dont with noobs at the table and dont mind floating the extra money laying a few numbers and come bets at odds since you can get the homerun with the 7 .
     
  20. snoopydogj

    snoopydogj Low-Roller

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    I set the dice too. I watch as they a pushed back & I have them ready to go in 5 seconds. I really don't think I can influence but I just like to have my routine.
    I too can't stand someone who slows down the game after the dice are pushed out.
    I don't give a damn how someone throws as long as it's in a timely fashion. Then again nobody should care about someone setting dice & making a nice soft toss.
     
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