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Declining Upfront Comps?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by vegasmeister, Nov 24, 2015.

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  1. vegasmeister

    vegasmeister Tourist

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    Hello fellow VMBers.

    Is there anyone else that would rather pay for their own room (even at a different property) in order to avoid coming in with upfront comps through a host, so that they don't feel obligated to put in the daily four hours of play, or a certain expected betting level (or is it just me)?

    Here are my stats from the past two trips (both hit and run day trips to Wynncore, blackjack only):

    Trip 1:
    Time: 1 hour 24 minutes
    Avg Bet: $2,393
    Theo: $1,400

    Trip 2:
    Time: 2 hours 57 minutes
    Avg Bet: $3,009
    Theo: Not given, but based on theo above would be above $3,000

    Both trips were low to mid five figure wins, and things probably could have (would have) turned out differently if I had to put in the minimum four hours. My avg bet is way higher than it should be for my size of bankroll, so my risk of ruin is very high, but I like to "go big or go home."

    Of course, the host is all over me asking me where I am staying, or where I normally stay, telling me that they will give me a room anytime "and of course everything will be comped."

    I am very low maintenance, and all I ask for at the end of each day is a meal comp (SW Steakhouse). Is there anything else I can ask for on the backend of a winning trip with the stats above? Can I ask for airfare reimbursement on a solid winning trip? I have negotiated airfare on the back end of a losing trip against outstanding markers, but never on a winning trip.

    The one thing I have noticed about not staying on property is that you can't just charge things to the room, but have to ask a host for each and every thing.

    Any comments or suggestions regarding upfront vs backend comps, and any obligations that come with upfront comps are appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I would say that the sense of obligation should not exist. You are not scamming the host trying to get a teaser offer to no play. If he looks at your numbers and wants to offer something up front, take it, but don't change how you play. If it is good enough you are golden. If its not, next time you get offered less up front. His expectations are not your problem.

    But I think you'll always get a sweeter deal upfront than on the backend, because up front is when you have the leverage. They need to get you there to get anything. On the backend they kind of want to keep you happy so you'll be back, but that is much more nebulous, and they will want to give the minimum that makes you happy.
     
  3. RM777

    RM777 Low-Roller

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    I am all about blackjack hit and runs, therefore, I have never worried upfront comps because my play usually results in satisfactory backend comps. Furthermore, my hit and run style does not generate decent upfront comps. I think the only reason I get good backend comps is because the host hopes next time I stay at the tables a little longer.The only time I negotiated upfront comps was when I was trying to get Wynncore to match an offer I received from the Venetian.
     
  4. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Purposefully avoiding comps is just as dumb as playing just to get comps. Why would you pay to stay somewhere rather than take a comp from where you're playing just to avoid the chance that your host feels screwed? Now if you like to stay at Wynn, but hate playing there and would rather play at Venetian, that's a different story. Just take whatever comps you're offered, play as much and as long as you want to play, and let the chips fall where they may. I can somewhat understand people who want to avoid booking through hosts as it makes the potential for shortplaying more "personal" vs. calling a 1800 number and talking to Julie Operator who you will never see/meet/or hear from again. Avoiding a property altogether is just throwing money away. Even if you end up playing less than they anticipated, the worst case is you don't get any future offers. Then you're back to paying for a room somewhere anyways, so what have you got to lose??

    The only variation to this rule is that I'll sometimes avoid staying at Mirage or Bellagio through my hosts there and will opt to take a comp from another property on a marketing offer if I know that there is going to be something that will significantly alter my play, but that's only because I don't want to mess anything up when I return on a normal trip. For instance, if I know I'm going with a group or doing some activity that is going to eat up a large majority of my gambling time, or cause me to spend more time at CET properties or something along those lines, I'll just take my free room from CET or Venetian or wherever, so as to not ruin my RFB at Mlife by not having the time to play to my normal standards. I could probably just let my hosts know ahead and it would be okay, but it's just easier to alter my plans a bit. In your example though, if you aren't taking advantage of the comps anyways, then what difference does it make?
     
  5. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Take what you can get and play how you want and make no apologies.
     
  6. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    [video=youtube;O97MmdWddws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97MmdWddws[/video]
     
  7. vegasmeister

    vegasmeister Tourist

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    Thank you. That gives me some things to think about. Can you still expect up to 40% of theo in comps if you only put in a couple of hours per day, or will they try to shortchange you since the hours aren't there?
     
  8. FABismonte

    FABismonte Low-Roller

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    Most hosts like a minimum of 4 hours a day. But in your case since you are a heavy hitter in short bursts, why don't you just tell the host your expected level of play? Don't forget that hosts get credit for their player's theoretical losses. So he should be at least as eager to set you up as should want to be set up. If possible, negotiate for complimentary table chips up front as an incentive. I personally like complimentary slot tournament invitations, It does not matter if you play the one-arm bandit with your own money or not.
     
  9. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Yes.

    But just know that casinos don't care too much for hit and run players.

    They want players who sit there all day.

    Hit and run players are more dangerous.

    So in the long run you may get black balled.

    That's why I say take whatever you can get when you can get it.

    You never know when they're gonna cut you off.
     
  10. vegasmeister

    vegasmeister Tourist

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    Black balled as in 'persona non grata' or no comps? Would they do that if you are not an advantage player?
     
  11. Easy9

    Easy9 Low-Roller

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    I played hit n run all over cosmo and was 86 from there this year for this type of play. I would play roulette and BJ in HL, craps right by the escalator and for a break, bacarrat at Talon. All hit n run.

    I had two separate stacks of chips, one in the HL room and one in Talon. I stayed about 2.5 days and was asked to leave half way through the 3rd day hnr.

    Have never been back or tried to play there. They did charge my CC for tips for the butler staff daily and tips on the items charged to my room. First time I had seen that and i have stayed everywhere. Im talking tips totaling about 3k, but i won so much, i could have cared less.
     
  12. geoff

    geoff Low-Roller

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    My situation is a little different than yours (average bet a lot lower) I can get base rooms for free upfront at Wynn, but would rather stay in the tower suite. The Amex fhr rate with everything it includes is a better deal than casino rate. Granted if I have a big trip I cat get the room comped this way but went I travel with my wife I can usually rack up the f&b charges pretty high and just get those comped off.. Sometimes I do take the upfront comps if there is a promo/tourney going though
     
  13. Easy9

    Easy9 Low-Roller

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    Play at the level you are comfortable and dont worry about comps. If you like hnr than play that way, its your $$$
     
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