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Table Games Dealer mistake - What should the pit have done?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Kickin, Aug 14, 2014.

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  1. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I was leaving Vegas on Tuesday night and that afternoon, after spending the past 24 hours losing and losing, I paid off all my markers and wanted to get out of MGM for a bit and went over to NYNY to grab a bite in the food court. On the way back I decided to stop and play a little DD BJ in their high limit room, I was the only one in there. Never really played at NYNY before. I bought in with $1600 cash (weird amount I know) and the dealer accidentally counted it up as $1500 and I was half asleep but luckily caught her just before she dropped the cash into the box. She recounted and apologized. Ok, no big deal.

    This was a S17 table and a few hands in I had a $400 bet down and was dealt a 15 against a 6. I stood and she turned over an ace and dealt herself another card which was a King. It was S17 so she shouldn't have hit her hand and even though I would have lost anyway I noted that the King would have been my first card on the next hand. The pit boss was watching and said I was going to lose either way and the best he could offer was to shuffle the deck. I asked him to either give me the King or even better call it a dead hand and give me back my $400. He just hemmed and hawed (sp?) and said he couldn't do that and again offered to shuffle the deck. I couldn't care less about the deck being shuffled so I just told him to forget about it. I ended up getting a 5 for my first card on the next hand and lost the hand. I had a bit of a run at one point but eventually lost my buy-in and walked away.

    I've had dealer errors in the past and they were always resolved in a more favorable way. I was surprised especially since this was at NYNY where they don't get much action from the looks of things. They practically seemed to fawn all over me for deciding to play there, asking me if I had a host, seeing my smokes were low and calling to get me another pack, etc. But when it came to this hand I feel like I got a bit screwed.

    What do you think?
     
  2. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    Unfortunately, I am not sure there is much else they could do.

    If you had a winning hand until the dealer took the hit, I am sure they would have corrected it. Since cards were still on the table, it is just too easy to "back it up" to correct the error. And I am 99% sure they are not allowed to let you get the King as your next first card - that would be allowing you to "see" one of your cards before you place your wager, and therefore not allowable.

    Sucks, but it was a no win situation in more than one way. I would not blame the pit boss.
     
  3. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Hard to believe they had a dealer that bad at a high limit table, the buy in was inexcusable. As for the error, they will never let you keep the king for the next hand, and since you were going to lose either way I dont think they should have let you have your money back. I really hope you didn't tip the guy(later) to show what a good guy you are? I hate that, if they suck or are rude they get nothing, ever.
     
  4. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I can understand them not backing up and giving you the king as your first card. However I would think that they could call the hand dead and give you the bet back. I probably would have pressured them to return the bet. Easy to say without me being there but I could see myself escalating it over the pit boss.

    There have been similar incidents when I was playing blackjack and each time the pit boss has instructed the dealer to leave the bets up and proceed to the next hand.
     
  5. dutchvelvet

    dutchvelvet VIP Whale

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    I think the pit handled it correctly. If you had 18 and the mistake caused you to lose, I imagine they would have paid the hand. However, in your case you were losing either way. As for the next hand... they can't let you know before that you are about to get a 10.

    Reminds me of the "off" dealer I had at Mandalay Bay during my last trip. She made so many mistakes the pit pulled her mid shift. That was a $100 minimum table too.
     
  6. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    One time one of the tables at Bellagio had a problem with their hole-card mirror. The dealer had a ten for an up card and thought that the hole-card was an Ace. He flipped it over, and it was a face for a 20, not an Ace. One of the players had a 16, but the floor person did not allow that person to surrender because the dealer hole-card was shown. Since this was the casino's fault and not the player's, the player should still have the option to play per the rules of the table.
     
  7. pphold

    pphold pp Park Place Degenerate

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    I had that happen where the dealer turned over the hold card. They called the hand dead and let everyone pull their bets back. Which was fine by me since the dealer had 20.
     
  8. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I can see getting a dead hand out of it. And I'm a bit surprised that wasn't offered even if you didn't necessarily "deserve" it (as you would have lost either way).

    But I wonder if being able to see a card before placing your bet is against gaming regulations. I'd imagine it's probably a pretty solid casino rule even if it isn't against regulations.

    Sorry about the bad break. Pretty weak dealer for a HL room!
     
  9. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    IMHO, the pit should have backed the card a step (even though you would've lost the previous hand) and dealt with you receiving the king. But that is from my experiences.

    Actually, thinking about my previous experiences, since you would've lost the hand anyways, the king should've been burnt.

    At least that's what they would do in AC.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  10. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    How can he justify to leave the bet up if he would've lost the bet anyways? The king should be a burn card and kickin receives the next card.
     
  11. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    I believe that is 100% correct, they should've let the player surrender. But if it wasn't a surrender table, take the hit even if you have 19.
     
  12. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    You are correct, they would have paid the hand if it was a winning hand after the mistake. But regardless, the king should be a burn card.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  13. RiddickBull

    RiddickBull VIP Whale

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    That sucks KC. Just having that feeling of them breaking the rules or style is not welcoming. Mistakes by dealers should give the option for players to keep playing or get their bet back, IMO.

    I remember when I playing baccarat at Palazzo a few months ago. The dealer didn't let us touch and peel the cards. She just flipped them over, we lost. The pit boss was nice and gave us our money back. The same thing happened at Cosmo also. The pit boss didn't give us our money back. I guess it depends on the pit boss.
     
  14. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    There is no way they will consider it a dead hand. They most likely wouldve burnt the king and let kickin take more hits though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2014
  15. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Given that you had already stood against the 6 with an A underneath, and you were the only one there, I understand them not calling off the hand, since you'd lost either way. That being said, the fact that their HL dealers are so crappy is problematic. Can't do a cash count (which is amazing given the usual procedures for laying out the cash for the camera) and can't remember to stand on a S17? Bizarre.
     
  16. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    When I have been on the end of a mis-deal or mistake like that the pit boss' reasoning was based on player relations and "building goodwill". I was pretty tight with this boss and when I spoke to him later that night getting my stats for the day I asked him about it and he said that he did it because the house was going to get theirs anyway. He built some goodwill with the players and they appreciated the call in their favor.

    I had a boxman in craps one time "no roll" a shooter's seven out because the die was leaning against a chip stack in the big 6/8 area. The table was loaded because this dude was shooting for over a half an hour. The house could have won thousands when they cleared the table if he'd called seven out (like they normally do erring on the side of the house) but the roll continued for another 15min.
     
  17. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    I agree with the pit boss mis deal or mistake call with them being nice or generous but normally that is not the correct move. In my experience, they back the cards up and burn the next card or cards depending where you are playing. But I do not disagree with you.
     
  18. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Admittedly I haven't played as many hands of blackjack and many of you guys...so I can understand the ruling you mentioned too.
     
  19. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    You guys brought up a great point about why they couldn't let me have the King for my next card since it would give me big advantage on how much to bet. I didn't even consider that. But I did think I should have gotten a dead hand out of it, though admittedly I am biased. Not getting the dead hand stung a bit more because I had a bigger than usual bet out and I was in pure chasing mode. From my recollection when there has been a screw-up its usually been called a dead hand, but I don't remember the details of those times.

    I mentioned the miscount of the cash because this misdeal happened just a couple of minutes afterwards and it added to me thinking the pit boss would try to show me some extra consideration, since he ok'd the miscounted cash. I was surprised that happened too, I haven't been buying in with cash much any more and what's weirder is when I handed it to her I even said it was $1600. I guess she didn't hear me. Then she put it down as 3 rows of 5 bills each but I guess one row had 6 bills in it.

    To tell you the truth I had a few dealer screw-ups on this trip and I usually don't see any, or maybe just don't notice them. But twice at MGM a dealer tried to take my bet on a hand I won or pushed. Both times I caught them and they apologized profusely. It was two different dealers.
     
  20. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Sorry, KC, but in this particular case - given that there were no other players, and given that the soft-17 beat you, it's not truly a dead-hand.
    You had already lost the hand prior to the dealer giving himself the King.

    Now, as for the king being put in play when it shouldn't have, the pit was stuck. Offering a re-shuffle was the best he could realistically do.
    I would have taken him up on that, given that an 'even' count would presumably be better then where the count was at that point in the deck.
    As you mentioned - you can see why he couldn't let you have the king.

    The botched buy-in? Pretty inexusable, but I suspect most of us have been there at one time or another. It happens.
    The dealer improperly hitting a soft-17?
    These days, I actually get that, as the vast majority of tables are H17...force-of-habit.
    Who knows? That could have been the first time he ever even dealt a S17 game.
    Anyway - get 'em next time!
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
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