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Table Games Craps Table Min Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by stackinchips, Apr 1, 2013.

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  1. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Was talking about craps over the weekend with a friend and we were discussing craps table minimums. Sometimes I wish that table minimums were like roulette, in that it's an aggregate minimum. For instance let's say I'm a guy who plays roughly $50 a roll to start. On a $5 table, I can play pass line, full odds, and go all the way across (yes I know that can be more than $50 but just play along). I'm betting more than 10x the table min.

    Now let's say I'm at a $10 table, but I don't want to have more than the $50 at risk. Now I can only play pass line, full odds, and maybe 1 place bet. For me as the bettor, I've lost "action" where now I only have a couple of numbers that win me any money, which diminishes my entertainment value. The house hasn't really gained anything as I have the same amount of money at risk, (maybe even lost theo) because I'm just playing an extra $5 on the pass, but less on all the place bets and more on the odds which have no HA.

    So my question is, why don't casinos allow for aggregate minimums like roulette? Maybe they could exclude odds since there's not HA? In the two scenarios above, wouldn't the betting pattern in example 1 ($5 table) be more advantageous to the casino than someone on a $10 table only playing pass line and full odds, or even worse someone just placing the 6 for $12? Anyone have any thoughts on this?
     
  2. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    In craps what does the minimum apply to? Isn't it just the pass, come, don't, and field bets? On place bets I always start with just $12 each on the 6 and 8 whether its a $10, $15, or $25 table. So I don't think it applies to those. Sometimes I'll only have one of those place bets on if the other one is the point.
     
  3. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I like to play at $5 tables and play pass and 2 comes bets with 3x4x5x odds, but if I'm at a $10 table I can only afford (for what I want to risk) the same bets with 2x odds.

    I'm still not sure, despite your description, that you can place numbers for less than the minimum.
     
  4. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Place bets are subject to table minimums as well. Center bets aren't, but place bets are.
     
  5. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    On a $25 table, you have to place $30 on 6 and 8 and $25 on the other numbers.
     
  6. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    That's weird because I just played it recently this way in AC. I always play the same way, table min on pass with full odds, one or two come bets at min with full odds, and 12 on 6 and 8, which I'll press but start at 12. Occasionally the same thing but on the don'ts. My table mins have always been between 10, 15, or 25. This last time they were 15.
     
  7. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    One practical reason is that it might be pretty difficult to keep track of. In roulette, every person gets their own color chips, so it's easy enough to see how much any given person has out at a time. I know that the dealers use the different chip positions to correlate bets to players, but if they had to watch aggregate totals in addition to everything they have to keep track of, that could get pretty burdensome. Not to mention, while each spin of the roulette wheel is a discrete bet, craps has a lot of bets that stay up for multiple rolls, can be taken down at any given time, etc.
     
  8. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Perhaps. But then again on a full roullette table, is the dealer always counting every color of chip to make sure everyone is betting the table min on every spin?

    Not saying you don't have a valid point, but it seems like dealers/boxmen could simply get a feel for what you're betting. Sure you might be able to get a few throws snuck in while betting below the minimum, but it'd be pretty easy for the casino to catch it eventually.

    As to the taking down bets comment, technically, place bets are bets that are being wagered on each throw of the dice, not one shooter's entire roll. Essentially you're betting that on that particular throw, your place bet number will be rolled. If it's rolled, you win, if a 7 is rolled, you lose, if anything else is rolled it's a push.
     
  9. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Interesting. Never been to AC. Maybe it's different. I mostly play the $10 tables when I can because I like more people. I bet $25 mostly, so it doesn't much matter to me what the table min is, but if there's a $10 table going and a $25, the $25 is almost always empty.
     
  10. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    It's definitely manageable, but I think it'd be a much bigger pain in the ass. It's one thing to quickly see whether it looks like there are 10 chips of each color on the roulette spread; it's another to figure out, on a roll by roll basis, whether each player's casino chips, which are uniformly colored across all the players but also likely of different denominations, add up to $50. It might just be more trouble than it's worth, especially when you consider all the different payouts that dealers already have to keep track of.
     
  11. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    For craps I always play at the lowest minimum available. Over here that is going to be 10 or 15 (the tables will all be one or the other, don't really see both). At busier times they will have some 25s. I try to avoid those but sometimes its the only table with space. Maybe I've slipped through the cracks on those place bets, like I've said before I don't play craps much at all.
     
  12. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Seems like a lot more work for the crew for very little (if any) gain. Tough to keep track of the bets for the crew. And what happens when you have 5 on pass and 5 on a number with a point set, and then decide partway through that you want to take the place bet down? Not allowed to until a 7 out?

    Not to mention, this takes away from the edge off players who "play up to" their table. Some may have a $50 cap. But some will bet more at a $10 min table than at a $5, and you just gave them the cheaper option when you had the demand to run a $10 table.
     
  13. nj chief

    nj chief Tourist

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    KickinChicken, where do you play?

    I play craps in AC at least once a month and the place bets for me have always had to meet or exceed the table minimum. The minimums are almost always $10, $15 or $25 and a few places have $5 games when it is slow.

    I think it would be very hard to keep track of a combined $50 minimum, especially with the center bets. Point is 6, $10 on pass, $38 inside, high on the 8 + hard 6 & 8 $1 each. That is $50 not counting odds. First roll is an easy 8, now you are down to $49 if you don't go back up on the hard 8. Impossible to keep track of at a full table.
     
  14. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Almost exclusively Borgata, Harrahs, and Caesars. I can say with 100% confidence the last time I played was just a few weeks ago at a $15 table at Harrahs and I bet $12 each on 6 and 8. It's been a while since I played at a $25 craps table but I'd say I'm 90% sure I did the same unless I'm just forgetting they made me increase the place bets. I dont doubt everyone here is right so maybe I am mistaken or just slipped through the cracks. I've never seen a $5 table at those casinos but would love to play on one. For me craps is just a game to donk around on without a big buy-in for a little while. I almost always lose.
     
  15. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Playing $5 craps and just flinging chips around is a good time. It's funny, but I don't feel any better or worse when I win or lose a buy in, regardless of the limit. Hell, I hated losing at a charity game last month even though the chips were free.
     
  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I know what you mean. I was at a relatives place in Pennsylvania near the Sands so we stopped in to check it out and I just had a few hundred in my wallet so played red chip blackjack and after a while didn't even notice how little the stakes were. I was just having fun playing.
     
  17. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    I play at Harrahs and Borgata also.I was there about 6 weeks ago and heard a dealer tell a player they had to increase their bet as it was a $15 game
     
  18. Gregsmt

    Gregsmt Low-Roller

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    I've always seen where you have to betting the table minimum on all the place bets. But I've never played in AC. Saturday night in tunica they had one end of the table at $10 and the other end at $25 min. At a $25 table you have to bet a minimum of $5 on the 2,3,11 and 12 too. No $5 horn is allowed" it would be $20 horn min.
     
  19. nj chief

    nj chief Tourist

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    I very rarely go to the marina casinos, mostly play at Showboat, Taj, Ballys, Plaza or Caesars. Showboat & Plaza will sometimes have $5 tables during the week and I heard that Atlantic Club also has $5 tables, but I haven't been there since it was Hilton. On rare occasions Plaza will have a $3 table with 10x odds, which I wish they had all the time. The worst is when they raise the table to $5 or $10 they drop the odds to 5x. FYI - Ballys always has 10x odds, but they do not have the fire bet, like the other CET properties.
     
  20. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating for a $50 minimum, I was just saying it'd be nice if there was some sort of aggregate minimum that would take into account all of a player's action.
     
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