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Table Games Craps strategy, preferences, observations, questions etc...

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by mongo380, Jul 26, 2012.

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  1. mongo380

    mongo380 Tourist

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    So I am somewhat of a newbie - second time playing craps in Vegas. I read the stickies on this forum and a few books on strategy as well. Just wanted to see how some other folks are playing the game as I saw a lot of variation in play. It seems that the consensus is to play pass line with odds, come bets with odds and place the 6 and 8. Bankroll permitting, do you take more odds on certain points with a higher probability of getting rolled (like 6 or 8)? If the point is like a 4 or 10 where there might be a chance at a longer roll, do you place more numbers or come bets with less odds on the 4 or 10? Might you play all the hardways on a 4 or 10.

    I played at various different levels of establishments (the D, Aria, Ph, Cosmo, Flamingo) and I did not really see a lot of consistency among players strategies...field bets, horn, hardways, c/e etc but not many playing simple pass/place/come bets. In fact in many cases I was the only one placing come bets. To me taking at least one come bet is a good way to "hedge" your pass line bet against a 7 out on the next roll.

    Also, when you chose tables do you avoid an empty table or have some other criteria for choosing? I often noticed an empty table or two and then a bunch of crowded tables. I realize it's no fun shooting by yourself unless you are really confident and the social aspect would not be there on an empty table. I think the crew matters also.

    One table I played at a man was placing a 5$ C/E for the shooter on the come out roll. I assumed that was a "Karma" gesture but may be more to it.

    One other question what is the bet where you set your chips on the bottom of the pass line (after point was established)? A guy explained it to me but can't recall the name. I think he said it pays 7 to 5.

    Thanks for reading, any insight or thoughts would be great. It would be great to hear how others play.
     
  2. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    what would you like to know?
     
  3. TylerH50

    TylerH50 Low-Roller

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    I seem to only play at $10 min tables at strip properties that have 3x/4x/5x odds. Like most I usually start out w/ a basic strategy of playing 2x to 4x odds on the pass line, and place the inside #s (5,6,8,9). I tend to be conservative out of the gate, but I will put down $1 hardway bets and for karma's sake place a $1 hardway for the dealers as well.

    Depending how the table goes, the more I spread out. I'll throw out different types of bets and press my place and hardway bets if the table starts to heat up. I love hop bets, and I have been pretty lucky the last few times I've played.

    I rarely make Come bets, but I will throw out hi-lo (2,12) or horn bets as it heats up.

    To sum up, the way I play is based off of playing the inside and becoming more agressive if the table heats up.

    Also, I am superstitous on where I stand at the table. I try to get to the immediate right of the stickman at all times. If that space is occupied, I will look for the last position next to the dealer on either side.
     
  4. tonysoprano24

    tonysoprano24 Low-Roller

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    I always play the dark side just for the hell of it
     
  5. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    I play a similar game. Pass line with single odds, two or three place bests. For example, if the 6 is the point, I will bet the 4 and 9. If the 8 is the point, I will bet thefive and ten. That way, I always have a long shot (4 or 10) medium odds (3 and 9) and favorite (6 and 8) working. I press my bets after the collecting two wins. If it seems the shooter is on a nice run, I will place another number or two or add to my odds.

    As for come bets, I probably play them a little more often than most people. Sometime I will place only one place bets and then add a come bet or two. If there seems to be a bunch of quick seven outs, I will change up my bets and do come bets instead of place bets. It does seem that there are not a lot of come betters out there. I am told that "old school" players would bet the pass and two or three cme bets - all with odds" and rarely bet the place bets. Of course, my facvortie words at a craps table is "off and on" - when you have a come bet in place and another one pending and yournumber hits.

    I play hardways when the point is set hard. So if there i a 4-4 on the come out, I will throw out $5 on the hardways, high on the eight.

    As for other center bets, I play them after a front line win. This way, I feel like I am playing these high risk/high reward bets with "house money'. I like doing a $10 bet - Hi-lo-yo $2 each and hop the hardways $1 each. If a hardway hits, I put $5 on each "all day" hardway and collect the other $11. If a hi, lo or yo hits, I take $14 of my winnings and turn the $6 hi-lo-yo into a $20 horn.

    I prefer to stand straight out at either end of the table.

    I may be wrong, but I think that "7-5" bet you are talking about is a bet on the point. If you do not have a pass line bet but want to bet the point, you can place a bet on the line in front of you. It will pay the same as if you placed the number.
     
  6. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    I'm an OCD spazz when I play table games and I come up with systems all the time . . . not because they work necessarily, but because I like balanced patterns and I'm superstitious as all heck when I get a system put together (must NEVER deviate!).

    So . . . for CRAPS . . .

    Start with my Pass Line bet and a $5 YO.
    If it craps out I have to double it for the next one (double the YO too).
    When there's a point marked, I put double odds behind my pass bet and then I have to place whatever number will balance the board (i.e. --- if point is 6 I'll buy an 8 - if point is 5, I'll buy a 9, etc.). Then I'll do one come bet. If the come bet goes to one of the numbers I already have, I put the double odds on it and I'm happy with my numbers and I let the rolls go and see what pays. If the come bet goes onto another number, though, I'll of course have to place the "balance" number again.

    I do this every time, and when points hit fast it can quickly fill up ALL the numbers on top.

    Oh, I also put 5 or 10 bucks on a hard way bet IF and ONLY if I'm on that number.

    I'm also really OCD about stacking and organizing my chips, either putting them into patterns or lining up all the little stripe marks on the edges.

    I'm a weirdo. But everyone loves me at the craps table because I get super excited, tip heavily, and am more focused on looking cool when I throw the dice (my style is impeccable) than I am about winning.
     
  7. Pete Rose's Bookie

    Pete Rose's Bookie Tourist

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    I bet wrong (don't).

    I bet the minimum on don't pass. Once the point is established, I lay the maximum free odds (the local casino here is 20x :thumbsup:).

    I then bet the table minimum on don't come. If/when that number is established, I lay the maximum free odds.

    I'll do this one more time if the point hasn't been rolled yet, until I have action on three numbers. Once I've action on three numbers I sit back and wait for the stick man to say "seven out", which is music to my ears.

    There's nothing better than a cold table.

    In my world, the field does not exist. Never ever. Nor do the hard ways or anything else that's in the middle of the table. Ever. The only way my money ends up there is when I toss the boys a chip and tell em to make a bet.
     
  8. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    Occasionally I bet the field.
    Usually when I do, it's because I have an odd bunch of extra chips whose future I don't really care about (maybe I have $400 in green chips and $47 in various red and white chips) so I'll just put the stack in the field to see what happens. If it's one of those stupid low rent fields that only pays 2:1 on the 12, though, I won't put even a dollar in that field.

    I was saddened to see the Cosmo turned all their fields to 2:1 on the 12's. The just did this last month. I asked them if a lot of players complained and they said not really because most of their players are just dumb kids who don't really know any better.
     
  9. Pete Rose's Bookie

    Pete Rose's Bookie Tourist

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    After watching some of these "dumb kids" play absolutely without a clue, I happened to notice that the Big 6 and 8 were no longer on the layout of the craps table (MGM). I asked my dealer about this and they said that they did away with them a while ago, but interjected that it's still offered downtown. It was a pure sucker bet anyway, but he mentioned that it was a pain in the butt to calculate paying that bet, and he didn't miss it at all.
     
  10. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    I never played that bet, but I remember reading sometime back that it was a total scam and that some gaming commissions banned it completely. And now I'll have to google it to remember what that stupid bet even was.
     
  11. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    Okay, now I remember. It's a retarded bet because you could just place a 6 or 8 and get better odds instead of straight even money on the BIG 6 or BIG 8.


    Stolen from BODOG . . .

    "The big 6 bet is a wager that the 6 will be rolled before the 7 will. If any other number is rolled it does not effect the result and the dice are rolled again. Consequently, the big 8 bet is a wager that the 8 will be rolled before the 7 is. These two bets could be made at any stage of the game, including on the come-out roll.

    Odds and Probabilities

    The winning odds for the big 6 as well as for the big 8 pay even odds. For every dollar you wager you get a dollar. The real winning odds in favor of the house are 6 to 5, so the house edge is roughly 9% on both bets, which is rotten. Both bets are not considered the best online craps bets you could make and place bets are more recommended and have a higher chance of winning. You could just easily make a 6 or 8 place bet and get better odds for a payout and concede a much smaller house edge.

    The reason people place big 6 and big 8 bets is that it is in a conspicuous spot on the lower corners of the online craps table. Betting the big 6 and big 8 is a sign to other players that you know little of the rules of craps If you want to play online craps, avoid the big 6 and big 8 bets."
     
  12. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    There wasn't anything hard about calculating that bet, the BIG 6 or BIG 8 paid 1 to 1. But, of course, you can place the 6 or 8 and get paid 7 to 6. The only thing different about BIG 6/8 was it was 'self service', (you don't have to hand your chips to the dealer, you can place it yourself like the pass line or field, etc.)

    Clearly a scam bet and I've seen it removed from lots of layouts.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    To the mathematically inclined, Don't odds....

    Note, this is not a criticism of playing the don'ts.

    One thing I don't understand is how laying the odds on don't pass reduces the house edge. It seems to me once I've survived the come-out roll, my money on the table is playing at an advantage (pays 1:1 but the odds of winning are better than 1:1). How does adding more money that has a zero edge INCREASE the player advantage? Seems backwards to me. It seems more money with zero edge would dilute and reduce the advantage I now have.
     
  14. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    I bet the pass line and take full odds always.
    Then place the 6/8 for the same amount as my pass line plus odds.
    If the point is 6 or 8, I place the 5 or 9 to have 3 numbers working.I go up to 4 numbers if the table is going good.

    If the table is choppy I may alter this to play pass line with full odds plus one come bet with odds.
     
  15. IxAccDnf

    IxAccDnf VIP Whale

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    I was playing craps at Plaza years ago ( 25 cent table) when a guy came up next to me and started playing the Big 6 and Big 8. The dealer told the guy it would be better to place the 6 and 8 and get better odds. The guy's response was " I'm not an odds kind of player"
     
  16. jrinct1

    jrinct1 VIP Whale

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    I either use this and/or sometimes use the regression system on the place numbers......ESP if the table is choppy.
     
  17. mongo380

    mongo380 Tourist

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    Wow, it's great to read everyone's preferences and strategies. Even the dark side players ;)wink I've often wondered what got a guy who was consistently betting passline and placing numbers to all of a sudden belt out a "horn high yo" or throw some $ on some other prop bet.

    It's also good to know others are as OCD and superstitious as I.

    For those of you always putting full odds what is your bankroll in respect to the table min (say 10$ 5x odds). For those that don't play max odds it seems like it is more of the feel of the table (cold vs hot) than the point that dictates how many odds.

    When do you fold up shop or consider the table to have gone cold? Is it a few quick 7 outs or dice constantly flying off the table or what?
     
  18. mongo380

    mongo380 Tourist

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    This is exactly it. Wonder if there is a name for this bet or what....
     
  19. Pete Rose's Bookie

    Pete Rose's Bookie Tourist

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    If you want to hear about superstitions, you've got the right guy here.

    I try to adhere to three things:

    1. Never play when the sun is up.
    2. Always wear a hockey jersey (I keep careful track of which are the luckier ones)
    3. Always cash in with a two dollar bill (eg. $302)
     
  20. Pinny Long

    Pinny Long High-Roller

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    I've NEVER played the Don't's, but I thought about your query for a while and think I know the answer. It's all about the 7's, right? You DON'T want the 7 to get rolled on the come out roll, but you DO want it to come AFTER the point is established.

    There's a buttload of 7's in those dice. So the risk on your initial Don't Pass (come out) bet is actually quite higher (because the 7 is working against you) hence they give you the even money pay on that. But once there's a number established, there's still all those 7's wanting to show their face on the felt and the chance of someone making the point is considerably less than them making it (and this varies depending on which number, of course) . . . so, there's the odds rationale.

    I hope this makes sense. I'm sure someone smarter than me could probably organize these concepts a bit better.
     
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