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Table Games Craps strategy based on higher table minimums

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by rob889, Apr 8, 2013.

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  1. rob889

    rob889 Low-Roller

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    I was playing at a craps table at PHo on my last trip and the table minimums were bumped to $15 from $10 and nobody was grandfathered in.
    I'm curious what the rule of thumb is on when it's best to play place bets instead of pass/odds. At that table I switched from passline/odds to $18 place bets on 6 & 8.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. theotherone

    theotherone Low-Roller

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    When I first learned to play craps at the Venetian around 2 in the morning years ago, the table min was 15. My buddy was showing me how to play, and i was smashed, so I paid no mind to the price tag (I'm more of a 5 or 10 min guy now)

    Anyways, his method was "6, 8, pass line, pick up chips"

    This worked beautifully for a while, and when I sobered up a bit and started watching others raking in greens by placing chips behind their pass line bet, I started raking in more dough too. I also started branching out to other points, at one point throwing a bet on the 5 and then hitting it the very next roll, which went noticed by a hottie next to me with a rockin body and short hair.

    My point, finally, is this: bet them all if you can. If you must choose, I would go with the passline and 6/8. THen you can add odds in if you hit on the points a time or 2. My reasoning is, you will be more involved when you have place bets out there. Seems like playing ONLY passline and odds just takes forever, IMHO.
     
  3. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    I would definitely still play ODDs.
    If the bankroll was a concern then either continue with odds of $15, $20 or $25 as if the table was a $5 table.
    My other options would be to color up and find another table or play another time and table Mins are more suited for my bankroll.
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I agree with the earlier post. If a table min increase cramps your ability to make all the bets you want, definitely pick the odds bet. No house edge!
     
  5. rob889

    rob889 Low-Roller

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    Well my normal strategy is passline w/ at least double odds (depends on table minimums) and placing the 6 and 8, then a few come bets hoping for a lot of off/ons with a hot roll and chips being pushed my way after every roll.

    But back to my main question which is in terms of payouts...for example, a $30 place bet on 6 or 8 will win me $35 for each hit...whereas if it was a $15 table minimum, if I were to bet $15 on the pass and $15 odds I'd only win $15 (even money) from the passline bet and $18 from my odds. So in this example my $30 pass/odds bet won me $33...whereas a $30 bet on 6 or 8 would win $35.

    Basically when table minimums go up and I can't afford or don't want to risk that much money behind my passline bet, I think I'd be better off just sticking to place bets...but where is the line drawn? Anything less than 2x odds?
     
  6. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    Even with no odds, the pass line bet has a (slightly) lower house edge than placing the 6 or 8. If you can afford any odds at all (even 1x), the house edge drops quickly.

    Of course, the primary consideration is that you have to enjoy playing that way!
     
  7. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    I don't play any differently whether on a $25 table, or a $100 table. Just choose your bets wisely to match your bankroll. Maybe you can't place all the bets across right away, get on a hot roll and build up to that!
     
  8. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    Betting strategy in craps is about more than knowing the best (least) house advantage. It also has to do with what gives you enjoyment at the table.

    I enjoy playing craps. One thing I hate is standing at a caps table with only one or two bets in play and seeing the shooter go roll after roll, hitting place number after place number and I am not collecting anything.

    So at a $5 table, I would typically have a $5 pass line bet and $15 odds plus 3 place bets.
    At a $10 table I can afford pass with 1x odds and two place bets and a come bet with 1X - or three place numbers and increase them as they hit.
    With a $15 table, I might only do pass line with 1x odds and two place bets.
    I would rather not play a $25 table.....My budget would not allow me more than pass line and single odds and maybe one place bet and that would drive me crazy.
     
  9. joart75

    joart75 Tourist

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    I am new at this game, so I don't have much experience. One time the minimum was raised and someone asked if we would be grandfathered in. The answer was "no", so some of us left. Another time, the minimum was quietly raised, no one asked about it and we continued playing at the lower minimum. Maybe the secret is to not ask and see what happens?
     
  10. Vinegarjoe

    Vinegarjoe Tourist

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    rob889, First off, D@*& move by the Pho for not grandfathering in the players who were on the game during the minimum bet change.

    I agree with the other posters who said to color up and find a table that agrees with your bankroll.

    The worst feeling to have on a dice game is betting out of your comfort zone, and with dice tables at every casino on the strip, even on weekends you will find at least $10.00 games, and if you venture off strip or downtown, you will find $5.00 games.

    I also feel that if you don't take odds on your pass line bet, you are missing out on a slight advantage over the house.

    Good luck and I hope you are on a game when someone rolls a monster !

    Regards,

    Vinegarjoe
     
  11. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    I've been going to Vegas for 10 years now and I can't think of a time where we weren't grandfathered in after the limits were raised, either at craps or blackjack. In fact, I can remember quite a few occasions a while back where I was playing blackjack at $15, the minimum was raised to $25, and not only was I allowed to keep playing at $15, but when my girlfriend finally joined me, she was allowed to play at $15 as well. That's just a jerk move on the part of whoever's making that call.
     
  12. Hawaiianmark

    Hawaiianmark Low-Roller

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    Hey Joe! How ya been? Longtime no see.

    As far as OP question bankroll decides for me. Pass w/ odds and place bets up to 25 dollar tables after that ...table search!
     
  13. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Yep. Just don't say anything and continue to play at the original minimum. If they say anything just leave. That's bullshit. The correct way is to grandfather the players who were there before the minimum raise. The dealers and boxman are supposed to explain if new players question why.

    At the Orleans they raised the minimum but nobody took heed. We didn't say anything and they (Dealers and Boxman) didn't either.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  14. TrunksFull

    TrunksFull Tourist

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    Nothing surprises me anymore on the strip, especially at CET.

    It is hard to believe that Caesar's has seen it's stock performance and profits languish and not realize that these little nickel and dime decisions add up.

    So I'm not shocked that they wouldn't grandfather you in. I would just do what thousands of other former CET customers are doing - go elsewhere.
     
  15. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    If your funds are limited or you only want to put a limited amount at risk, then skipping the pass line/odds bet and making place bets with the same amount of $$ instead, allows you to be in the game with more numbers working for you...and, you can always place the point...hopefully, with the winnings from your place bets...some bettors may contend you are missing out on the "best" bet in the house, but that's why it's called gambling.:rolleyes:
     
  16. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    When funds are really tight, playing the pass line without odds is still a better bet than the place bet: slightly better than placing a 6 or 8; much, much better than placing a 5 or 9; let's not even talk about how much better than placing a 4 or 10 (although buying the 4 or 10 may be an option, depending on the amount). If you want another number, then make a come bet as well. Placing bets will require at least as much money, and in some cases slightly more (due to rounding issues).
     
  17. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    You are not the first person to do this analysis but you're still wrong that the place bet pays better than pass/single odds. You MUST include the fact that you have a 2:1 chance to WIN $15 with 7 or 11 on the comeout roll on the passline, something that is not part of the place bet. This is non-trivial.
     
  18. rob889

    rob889 Low-Roller

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    Ok great so including the 7/11 on the come out roll into the equation it is best to stick with pass + 1x odds if that is all that I could afford. That's pretty much all I needed. Thanks Wade

    Side note: same thing that happened at PHo about not being grandfathered in happened a couple months prior at Bally's...maybe it's a new policy at CET? Sad really...it's hard to play craps on the strip anymore when I know I can get 20x at MSS downtown and always have a $5 table. Frustrating hitting a 4 or 10 and having all this extra money on the pass that only gets paid even money...really adds up fast when you think about it.
     
  19. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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  20. nrm02

    nrm02 Tourist

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    How do the table minimums work in craps? On $10 table, is it $10 per bet or $10 total on table? Example, on $10 table, can you bet 5 on passline and place 5 on 6, or do both have to be $10?
     
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