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Table Games Craps rating

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by hjimzaf, May 12, 2012.

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  1. hjimzaf

    hjimzaf Tourist

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    Are odds rated in Vegas? If I play pass and 2 come bets with double odds with greens, am I rated at $75 per hand or $225 per hand?
     
  2. Iamrice

    Iamrice High-Roller

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    Apparently Bally's rates odds now. But I would imagine it lowers your overall rating.
     
  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    most places do not rate odds. however, if they do rate odds, i'm sure they adjust the calculations to reduce overall theo. so either way you're not getting odds rated.
     
  4. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    This.

    There's no such thing as a free lunch.
     
  5. Reefer

    Reefer Low-Roller

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    When I played at Encore, was told had to do at least $25 pass line & odds are not considered toward comps.
     
  6. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    So, if you aren't betting enough to get rated should you bother given them your players card? Isn't it good to have it documented that you are gambling even if not rated or will it bring down your average rating if you play a lot of machines?
     
  7. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Odds generally aren't rated, but that's a general statement. Depends on the casino, and the pit.

    Yes give your card it shows you were playing there and you might get a casino rate offer when their biz is slow.

    Getting rated on the tables is getting to be more expensive, they want slot players / suckers.

    Some of the smaller casinos might rate you at less but you never know. Doesn't hurt to ask the pit but they may scoff at a low roller.

    IF YOU'RE ON AN OFFER DON'T PLAY SMALL AND QUIT, THEY CAN RATE YOU AS A NON PLAYER. Never put your card in to check your points and not play. Just play it slow for a while. At least you might get a couple of drinks and maybe a buffet.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  8. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I'm going to have to disagree with Ben Jammin on this one. IMHO if you normally get comped rooms and discounts I wouldn't give them my card if I wasn't playing
    the same amounts that I usually bet. I think that a person's ratings would go down so the next time he might not qualify for the same comps. Playing on a lower level will hurt your rating.

    If you aren't normally rated enough to get comps then I don't think it will make a difference if you play even less.

    As Ben (sort of) mentioned, if you are there on a comp or an offer, you need to put in a certain amount of play to keep receiving the same offers. Any play with a comp is better than no play but because of your lower play, it will affect your rating and future comps IMHO.

    As for odds being rated, I don't know of any casino that does. Can someone else verify that Bally's rates comps? I don't understand, does this mean that all CP properties also rates comps too? Or is this just a Bally's thing.

    The reason that odds bets aren't usually counted in ratings is because the house advantage on odds are much less than the regular pass/come/place bets. The House Advantage is higher with the machines than the tables, that's why the tables require you to have greens on the table while you can play penny and nickel machines and get comps.
     
  9. Reefer

    Reefer Low-Roller

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    I was told that the amount of time spent playing also affects the comps. I thought I was told I needed to play table games for four hours and at more than $10 min. Does that mean at least $25min for four hours? It got too confusing ~ check please!
     
  10. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    4 hours is the standard time per day that casinos use in their descriptions. you could play 2 hours per day at twice that avg bet or 8 hours per day at half that avg bet.
     
  11. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    How did this come up when the poster asked if Craps Odds were rated?

    You are also rated on your buy in. You can buy in for $500 or $1000, and then play the minimum bets. A big buy in will get you noticed.
    Some casinos use a specific mathematical formula, others are rated by the Pit Boss on duty at the time.

    If you want to be rated at a strip casino, then you better be prepared to play big. However, if you know what you're doing, and understand the variance factor then you're as likely to win as you are to lose.

    Now, that having been said, if you let your presence be known in any casino, regardless of your betting level then when times are slow the casinos send out e mails and mailers to low rollers just to increase their body count.

    A casino rate offer is not a pure comp, but rather an offer of a discounted room with a few perks, like a coupon book. They know you're a low roller. Why do you think they're giving you a coupon book?

    At the off strip props, you might actually get a comped room for low level play.

    100 quarter players is the same a s 25 dollar players, as far as the house edge, less the small percentage of better returns at the higher denomination.

    Low rollers spend money in other ways as well, like how many can you think of to increase a casinos overall profit margin?

    So, just give them your card.

    END
     
  12. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    All casinos rate you on TOTAL action, not on some 'normal bet'. Yes, for a 4 day trip they might use some daily rate, but it's total dollars wagered they care about. Failing to give them your card when you are playing at a smaller minimum table can only hurt. Giving them more action at any table minimum is always an improvement. If you care about the comps always show them your card. They would much rather see 2 hours at a $5 table than 0 hours.

    As far as craps, generally they don't rate the odds bets because the theoretical loss associated with that bet is zero. If a casino DOES add in odds in the rating they reduce the overall comp percentage given on the game. The bottom line in any casino is to give you comps as some percentage of your expected loss. Expected loss always goes up if you gamble more, even at a low minimum table.
     
  13. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I'm just giving my opinion but I still disagree with you. As you said, your ratings are based on your total action so if your total action during your stay isn't at your "normal" level you will be rerated and your comps will go up or down accordingly IMHO.

    If I'm normally rated as a $50 player and start playing only $5 bets I wouldn't give them my card, especially if I start playing $5 bets more often (unless I know that I will be giving them more action later). Yes, we are rated on total action so if I just play $5 once or twice during my stay it wouldn't be a problem but if I start to play that more often then it is possible that my average daily wager will go down accordingly and my comps would be reduced (when I give them my card).

    As others have said, it also makes a difference if you play longer, you can make up for the $5 bets by playing much longer than you would with $50 bets, thus keeping your rating intact.

    I am no expert but it is just my opinion that you don't give them your card if you aren't going to put in your normal action amount (on average for your stay) if you aren't going to make up for it during your stay.

    I guess this is a personal thing, many people always give their card all the time no matter what, while I don't (and won't) since I often play at lower levels.

    Another thing to note, if you play at some casinos regularly they remember you so even if you don't give them your card it is possible that your play could still be recorded.

    As I said, this is JMHO.
     
  14. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    You're still confused. Your 'average daily wager' isn't the amount you wager on a single BET, its the amount you bet PER DAY. That's what they want, more $$ wagered PER DAY (or trip). If you are a '$50 bettor' and play $50 blackjack for 4 hours, then play $10 blackjack for 4 hours, you gave them MORE action then if you withheld your card at the $10 table. They want MORE DOLLARS wagered, not some mystical 'average bet'. They much prefer someone who gambles for 8 hours at averaging $30/hand than someone that gambles for 4 hours averaging $50/hand. (8*80*30 > 4*80*50).

    You're short-changing yourself by withholding your card, not improving your rating.

    Same thing on any slot machine. It's the total dollars through the machines (of any denomination) they care about, not how much you wager per spin. The more dollars wagered the more your expected loss. The $$ per spin doesn't really say anything about your expected loss, only the total of all your bets.
     
  15. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    that's true and not entirely true at the same time. avg bet numbers do come into play when the difference between the avg bets is significant. if you play 2 hours at 5k/hand and then play 2 hours at $200/hand, you're better off not using your card for the second half. that's because the extra theo provided by the second half is minimal and they will look at your avg bet and say, this guy only played 2 hours, but next trip he'll probably play longer at the same avg bet. 2 hours at 5k looks much better than 4 hours at 2600.
     
  16. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Innumerate. 2*5000=10,000 ; 4*2600=10,400. The first isn't a '5k' bettor, he is a $10,000 bettor. The second isn't a '2.6K' bettor, he is a $10,400 bettor.

    They pay you comps based on your expected loss, not on your average individual bet. Your expected loss is completely determined by your total bet handle (and which games you play), not your individual average bet. Ask any host, he'll tell you the same.
     
  17. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    If you are normally averaging 8 hours at $50 a hand for a day and then have a day when you average 8 hours at $30 a hand I do think that your rating will go down if you're normally rated at 8/$50 a hand. You are correct with your 8*80*30 versus 4*80*50, that your total action for the day would be higher with the lower bets but the OP didn't specify he would be playing longer at the lower amount. That's why I recommend not giving your card if you aren't going to be providing your normal daily action. But that also means that the bettor will have to make it up on another day to keep his average per day bet up. You are correct that giving the card will help a little towards keeping his average bet per day up but I rather just give my card when I do keep my bets up.

    I think we need to end this conversation by saying that we both have our own ideas on whether to give our card or not. I don't think we will convince the other any differently and we are only going around in circles trying to give our examples to support our side.
     
  18. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    If what you are saying is true (your average $/bet is your 'rating') then a player that plays $50/hand for 1 hour gets the same treatment as the player that plays $50/hand for 6 hours. Obviously they don't. Ask your host.
     
  19. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yes, in theory the theo is slightly higher on the second example, but in practice it's not that simple. they look at it in many different ways. if you normally avg 5k for 4 hours per day, it's better to have a trip where you play a 5k for 2 hours than 2600 for 4 hours. that's because when a host pulls up your info on the computer and sees 5k avg bet for 2 hours, he's just going to assume that you were busy that trip and didn't have as much time to play, but the avg bet is the same as usual. so he'll figure next trip you'll be back to your normal amount of time played and comp you accordingly.

    if he sees you played the normal # of hours, but at half your normal avg bet, he's not sure if next trip you're going to go back to your higher level or continue to play at this lower level. it's better for you in the long run for him to see the higher avg and less time. this has nothing to do with the computer evaluation of your play, but the human nature in the situtation.
     
  20. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I did not say that, you are just trying to twist things around to prove your point. No sense trying to explain anything to you because you will just turn it into something else.

    Our conversation is finished. You need to respect other's opinions and quit trying to push your opinions on others. You can continue to bring up points to try to support your side but I am done discussing it with you.
     
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