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Table Games Craps Questions on Strategies for Buy/Lay

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by gmunole, Jul 27, 2012.

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  1. gmunole

    gmunole Tourist

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    I read an article on another website that said if you press your bets that it is better to Buy the 4/10 then place it when you reach $20. It also said that buying the 4/10 were the only buys you should make.

    Is this sound advice?

    Is there similar advice on Laying numbers?
     
  2. jrinct1

    jrinct1 VIP Whale

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    Some houses will automatically do it for you ( esp if ya taking care of the dealers). But yes since the advantage are higher than any of the place numbers it is wiser to buy the 4 /10-- assuming its w/in your bankroll and you can afford it.
    I have also seen folks buy the 5 and 9 when they are playing heavy ( but it doesnt happen too often).The looks they got from the players and the dealers and pit critters were amusing, but the house would generally let the folks do it. And again i have seen this just a few times of my 25 plus years of playing craps, so its not an every day occurence.
     
  3. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    From wizardofodds.com

    Place Bets
    4/10 - 6.67% House Edge
    5/9 - 4%
    6/8 - 1.52%

    Buy Bets
    4/10 - 1.67%
    5/9 - 2%
    6/8 - 2.27%


    The Buy bets assume the commission is paid only on the win which is the case at every Vegas casino I've been in.


    It is exactly the same for Lay bets as well. You should do Lay over "place to lose" on the 4/10 always and on the 5/9 when commission is paid on win only.


    One oddity(or maybe I'm just very bad at math) with the buy 4/10 is that I always do this bet in increments of $25. When the number hits, I am paid $50 and I need to pay $1 commission. If I have $50 out there, I'm paid $100 and need to pay $2 commission. This ends up being 4% commission instead of 5%. Which pushes the house edge on the Buy 4/10 bet even lower.
     
  4. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Yes it does depend on the amount you bet on the buy. It has to do with the rounding out of your bet payback, up or down. Casinos are required to round up to the nearest to the minimum bet amount as per Nevada law.

    So, you can tweak your payback percentage in your favor by betting in increments of the minimum bet unit.

    This requires some study and you can learn it with some effort browsing the internet, again assuming the casino takes the commission only on the win.

    Most casinos in Las Vegas charge the "Vig" only when you win, this isn't true in Tunica or Atlantic City, or any other jurisdiction I know of except maybe Reno or Taho, but I doubt it.
     
  5. mjamesp

    mjamesp High-Roller

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    I'm pretty sure I've been charged a comm up front at golden gate and slots of fun buying the 4 & 10. I normally play downtown at the Boyd properties.
     
  6. gmunole

    gmunole Tourist

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    So I am a little confused.

    What increments can you bet the Buy? Lay?
     
  7. FoolsGold

    FoolsGold Tourist

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    For most casinos, most budgets, most players... its good advice.

    Its better to BUY the 4 and 10 than to make a PLACE BET on the 4 and 10.
     
  8. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    You can bet any amount on the Buy 4/10 because it pays 2:1. The 'cleverest' amount to bet would be $39 (or $1 less than a multiple of $40), because they'd still only charge you $1 in commission (5% rounded down.)

    If you are Laying the 4/10 you should do so in even numbers as they are going to pay you 1:2. Again, you'll pay 5% commission to do so. I'm guessing the 5% is figured one what you would win, not on what you bet.
     
  9. gmunole

    gmunole Tourist

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    So there is only a $1 Vig on bets up to $39, due to rounding?
     
  10. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    "The 'cleverest' amount to bet would be $39 (or $1 less than a multiple of $40), because they'd still only charge you $1 in commission (5% rounded down.)"

    I think that's what I said...
     
  11. gmunole

    gmunole Tourist

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    Sorry for the dumb questions but the buy/lay are new to me and I dont play all the time. This is a great game that I find new things out about it all the time.

    Will the casino let you buy the 4/10 for $10 instead of placing it for $10? assuming the table min allows for such a bet.
     
  12. mjamesp

    mjamesp High-Roller

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    Yes, they will let you buy for $10, same $1 commission (typically). I believe The Cal downtown charges $.50 on buy bets up to $15. Not sure about the other Boyd Properties.
     
  13. WrongWayWade

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    You could, but you are still paying $1 and that means you're paying 10% commission on your bet, so simply placing it is better odds (6.67% vs. 10%). You need to get to $20 before it should becomes a buy. Most good dealers will automatically convert your place bet to a 'buy' just because you bet $20 or more, (because it is always cheaper for you). Throw $20 out there, "give me the 10" and they'll put the 'buy' button on your money and collect your $1 (if they collect it up front). Some casinos will only collect it (or pay you $19) when you win.

    Any decent dealer will sort this out for you without much effort.
     
  14. bedaniels

    bedaniels Low-Roller

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    On the lay bets you pay a $1 commission for every $30 layed.
    $1 for a $30 lay bet
    $2 for 60
    $3 for 90
    $4 for 120
    $5 for 150
    Some places only collect the vig up front on inside numbers and you only pay the vig on outside numbers after the win. Others collect up front on each bet. If no one is hitting points I love to lay the point for $150. Pay the $5 vig again and collect again on the come out seven.
     
  15. VegasLover8

    VegasLover8 Low-Roller

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    Originally Posted by gmunole
    Sorry for the dumb questions but the buy/lay are new to me and I dont play all the time. This is a great game that I find new things out about it all the time.

    Will the casino let you buy the 4/10 for $10 instead of placing it for $10? assuming the table min allows for such a bet.


    I'm usually a pass+odds player. So I am not expert on place and buy bets. But this does not sound correct to me (at least mathematically). If you place the 4 or 10 for $10, you would get paid $18 on a win. If you buy them for $10, you would get paid $19 ($20 less $1 commission).

    Am I missing something?
     
  16. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    You are correct.
    If you do not have to pay the vig up front, then it is always better to buy the 4/10. I believe that at most Las Vegas casinos you aren't able to buy until $20
    So you win $39 instead of $36.

    WWW may have been talking about vig% being higher at $10 but you still win $1 more if they let you do it at $10( which they will at Tunica)
     
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  17. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I think you are right. I've read several places you should only buy it for a minimum of $20 (maybe I read they will only let you buy it for $20). But when I calculate both cases of whether they collect the commission up front or only on the win, the edge is less by buying it for $10 compared to placing it.

    The wiki page on Craps spells out all of these variations very well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps
     
  18. gmunole

    gmunole Tourist

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    When I watched the video on youtube by the wizard. He said that you should buy the 4/10 for $10 when you can. Now whether a casino will take that book is a different matter.

    Since I typically play at a tables <$15 this seems very appealing to me.
     
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