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Table Games Craps Question

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by TheDirty, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. TheDirty

    TheDirty Tourist

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    Forgive me as I am a fairly new craps player.

    As I understand it, a favorable strategy in craps is to play pass line, with odds, and no more than two come bets on the table at a time. I saw an instructional video that outlined this.. That's where I picked up this info.

    My question is in regards to you guys that play 6/8 place bets. Do you guys also lay come bets, after placing 6/8? Or do you play conservatively, and just play pass line/odds/6/8?
     
  2. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    craps play

    My question is in regards to you guys that play 6/8 place bets. Do you guys also lay come bets, after placing 6/8? ::confused2:

    Are you are asking about hedging your place bets by making Don't Come bets too ?

    If you want to bet conservatively, I would stay with pass line, with odds and placing the 6 and 8 or any other place numbers..... I would not make any COME bets....

    personally, COME bets do not make any sense or $$ to me, unless you are able to bet at least 5X odds....

    this might seem confusing for you now, but as you play more and look at the pay outs, based on what is bet, this might make more sense later.
     
  3. nj chief

    nj chief Tourist

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    I like to always have the 6 & 8, so I place them and still make a come bet. If a 6 or 8 is rolled, just take the place bet down and put odds on the come bet. If a 4, 5, 9 or 10 is rolled, I place odds, stop making bets and hope my numbers start hitting. If the come bet hits, I will then make another come bet. This way I always have 3 or 4 numbers working.
     
  4. mjamesp

    mjamesp High-Roller

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    I start out with pass line plus odds and placing the 6/8. Once I've been paid a few times and feel some momentum I start playing the come. If a come bet moves to the 6 or 8, I take down the place bet and go up on the odds. I usually press the 6 or 8 that isn't the come bet in an attempt to have roughly the same amount on each number.

    Once I get a come bet back I will go up on two come bets. Rinse and repeat, super fun to go off/on with all the numbers covered with come bets.
     
  5. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Sometimes I'll play the pass with full odds, place the 6 and 8, and if I'm feeling good about the come I'll play a come bet. If the first roll is an 8, the $30 and the $35 I win from the bet I have placed on the 8 covers part of the odds on my come bet.

    If you're a $10 bettor on the pass and come and a $12 place bettor, you'd have to toss in an extra $24 to get the full odds on the 8. But your place bet plus winnings would cover half odds on the come (8) and you'd get a dollar back.
     
  6. TheDirty

    TheDirty Tourist

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    I thought the payouts on place bets were not as good as the payouts on come bets.. But I guess that's not necessarily the case?
     
  7. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    To keep it simple lets keep the bet amounts the same.
    You place $30 on the 6 and a $5 Come bet.

    A 6 is rolled you get paid $35 for your $30 Place bet.
    The $5 Come bet is moved to 6, you add $25 for odds and take down the $30 place bet. So you still essentially have a $30 total bet.

    A 6 is rolled you get paid $5 plus $30 for a total of $35 which is $5 more for the same amount.

    Keep in mind this is if you are betting that amount. At the $5 table people tend to put less which means the difference may only be a $1 or $2.

    Sure overall the long run you may see a difference but not really for the casual player at that amount. Since it is really a nominal amount I tend to skip Come bets and do place bets to allow me complete control of all my bets.
     
  8. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I'm unclear what would make COME bets nonsensical. They are identical to pass line bets except they get started at a different time. Same odds as a pass line bet, same long-term results.

    I do like the "pass line plus keep two come bets active" system and use it a lot. The edge is sub-1% all the time, and I get action on the 'hard to make' numbers more often than the 6/8 place better. You also sometimes get the 'last come bet is always a winner' bonus (the shooter 7s out but you get paid on a come-bet you just made.)
     
  9. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    A come bet with full odds at a 3-4-5 table has a lower overall house advantage than a similar place bet. At the same time, it lowers your variance because you have a hedge against the dreaded 'point-seven'.

    I'm not suggesting lower variance is better or worse. It just is what it is.
     
  10. TheDirty

    TheDirty Tourist

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    Good discussion.. Thanks for the insight guys.
     
  11. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Everything you said is true, but ONLY looking at a come bet vs. a place bet and what happens when it wins on the number omits a critical piece of the come bet. You have a 8:4 advantage on 'your' comeout roll every time, and that makes even a come bet with no odds a better deal than any place bet.

    A $30 6/8 place bet wins $35, at single odds a $15 place bet with $15 odds wins $15 + $18 = $33, however, the place bet can never win $15 on a comeout roll.
     
  12. Bazzito52

    Bazzito52 Low-Roller

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    Pardon me, but let mention that come bets are NOT identical to pass line bets.

    The reason is that pass line bettors have a pass line bet in action on their come out roll. And odds can't be taken on it. So actually, it's a partial bet. A seven on the come out will win this bet.

    Established come bets on this same come out roll are in action and a seven will loose them all, minus the odds (which are off, by convention).

    So to say that a bet where you can win one partial bet to be identical to one where you can loose up to five partial bets is simply not the case.

    Pass line bets, come bets, and place bets are each different and have their own advantages and disadvantages. But they are not, by any stretch of the imagination, identical.
     
    NFL Divisional Playoffs!!
  13. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    You didn't an excellent job of not explaining your point and the differences between the pass and come bets.

    Actually, reading over your post again, I'm more inclined to agree that they are exactly the same. The only difference being that the odds aren't working on subsequent come out rolls when the table is "off."

    That being said, you can always tell the dealers that you want your odds working.
     
  14. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    A seven on the 'comeout' roll for a come bet ALSO wins that bet, just like the pass line.

    You are confused that there is something magic or special about the comeout roll as far as come bets are concerned. It's just the next roll. The fact that they turn off the odds on such a roll is just convention and can be changed by the player, (just as a pass line better can take his odds off his bet on any roll he wants to at his whim).

    You seem to think that the 'partial' win (your term) on a Come bet doesn't happen when it is first put down. Of course it does. (We're not talking about 'Put' bets.)

    Come bets and Pass line bets are identical except that they begin at different points in the series of rolls. But the money on each of those bets couldn't care less when it began; it is still resolved by the number being rolled or the 7-out.

    Come = Pass in EVERY Way.

    Find any reputable source describing the different bets on a craps table and see how they always list Pass and Come together.
     
  15. GA Redneck

    GA Redneck Tourist

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    Anyone know of the best video or link to learn more about craps?
     
  16. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    You can find a lot on youtube that will explain it. And, the wizardofodds.com is a great site for information.

    Really, you just need a base of knowledge to walk up to the craps table. The stuff that you REALLY need to know though is stuff like how to buy in to the game and what to say to the dealers when calling out your bets. That stuff is almost always missing from websites that explain the game. Usually they just explain what the bets are.

    When buying in, wait in between throws and just through your cash on the table in front of you with your players cards and they'll change it up for you. Then place it in the rack in front of you. Stand next to a dealer and tell them that you're new to the game. They should help you out.

    During the day and a less than fully occupied table is the best time to learn.
     
  17. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    come bets

    I bet the OP's head is spinning....

    Here's why COME bets make no $en$e to ME...

    As earlier posted, you lose the COME bet(s), (not the odds) if a new come out roll is a 7...

    AND, forget about any minor statistical edge when you put a COME bet on the table..... Let's say you had 2 COME bets working, for example:

    the numbers 5 and 10 ...and for each COME bet you had a $10 flat bet with $20 odds.. for a total of $30 at risk for each number....

    If I make PLACE bets on the same numbers for the same amount ($30) at risk, here's the result:

    if the subsequent roll is a 5, the COME bet would pay $10 for the flat bet (even money) and $30 for the odds (3/2), for a total payout of $40...

    My PLACE bet for the same amount at risk ($30) would pay $42 (7/5).....


    if the next roll is a 10, the COME bet would pay "true odds" (2/1) for a total of $50 ($10 + $40)..... my PLACE bet on the 10 would pay me a net of $59 (a "buy" bet(2/1 odds) of $30, less $1 commission)....


    I basically mimiced the COME bet, by making a PLACE bet on the same numbers and bet the same amount per number....but, the net result is I got paid more for the same $$ at risk...


    I'm just saying I prefer PLACE bets....
     
  18. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    vsop, you forgot to mention that the come bet requires your numbers to hit twice before you get paid on it.

    You get paid every time on your place bet.

    I've been playing the come bet for a long time and just recently I started to question doing so. It seems to me that I could make a lot more money by placing bets and pressing them as everyone else does.
     
  19. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    This would be better if you were right. You can look up the odds of a come bet and compare it to a place bet on the wizard's site. It's going to show you that the come bet has a smaller house advantage. This isn't debatable.

    You're factoring out the possibility of winning the come bet on the come out roll, which is negating the best advantage of that bet.

    If you like the place bets, go ahead and play them. I do. Just don't try to explain why they make you more than come bets, because mathematically they don't.
     
  20. woodsie

    woodsie Low-Roller

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    Check out the Wikipedia article on Craps. It has house edge info on every bet. Other than taking the lowest edge bets, the only meaningful strategies in craps are ones which deal with playing in a manner that corresponds with how long you hope to last and what kind of action you want.

    I stick to low edge bets like pass, come, and place 6 and 8. I press only with winnings as a means to manage my money so I don't bust too quick. Once a start pressing, I don't stop until the roll is over as a means to occasionally get some big action on small starting bets.

    It's not a winning strategy as there is no such thing but it gets me the fun I'm looking for. Others have their own take which can also be valid.

    The only thing I'll throw out there is to not get too crazy on the center bets. The casino makes more money on a dollar yo bet than a five dollar passline bet.
     
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