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Table Games Craps Fire Bet Going Extinct?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by troe, Feb 3, 2016.

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  1. troe

    troe Tourist

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    I was in Vegas this past weekend for a 4-night stay. I try to reserve the bulk of my play at CET properties. I believe all CET properties with the exclusion of Linq, Bally's and Paris now have only the All Small, All Tall, and Make 'Em All bets. I was told by a Caesars Palace dealer that CET is doing away with the fire bet. I'm wondering why... I know 4 individual points on the fire pays 25:1, where the All Tall and All Small bets pay 35:1, so they likely make more money on the longer odds, but I saw way more All Tall or All Small bets being won this weekend than I ever did a 4-point fire bet. Additionally, the All Small, Tall, MEA bets lose if the shooter rolls a 7, be it on the come out or after a point is set, so it makes them a little harder/more expensive to set up if you have a few 7s to start a roll.

    I also played a little at The Orleans and they have the Replay Bet for shooters that hit the same point multiple times, but no fire.

    Any thoughts on the fire bet going extinct?
     
  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I assume its going away because CET doesn't want to pay whatever licensing fee that have to pay to offer the wager. They did not invent the fire bet, so its not free for them to use
     
  3. FABismonte

    FABismonte Low-Roller

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    I have had a lot more luck at the STA bets than I have had at the Firebets. Also it appears that the house edge on the STA bets is about one-third the house advantage on Firebets. Therefore, I am happy CET is migrating over to the STA bets. I would, however, be willing to take a second look at Firebets if the casino used the three firebet points minimum pay off version I once saw at the Nugget at Reno/Sparks. It is so very rare to get four or even five points hit that I am happy to see the CET Firebet replaced.
     
  4. Rush

    Rush High-Roller

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    Maybe they just want a form of bet that pays out once in a while? I've never seen the fire bet hit, while I've seen Tall/small/all hit many times in a day.
     
  5. WichitaMuskie

    WichitaMuskie Low-Roller

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    I hit my one six-pointer of a lifetime last March at The Cromwell, so I guess I'm okay to see it go.
     
    Conference Tournament Weekend
  6. Harry Lyme

    Harry Lyme Low-Roller

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    I was on a four-point once and got to the table late to two, but abandoned ever seeing six points. It's funny this thread appeared as I was going to ask if people were seeing $5 flat fire bets like Harrah's Philadelphia has. I just thought that that's an easy way to not make money as most people there would put at least a buck and more down, but since the $5 rule you might see maybe 3 people bet it. It's dumb, really. I'd like to see something else come in at this point. Or nothing, as I'm fine with that, too.
     
  7. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    I'd be thinking its a combination of the licensing fees to offer the game, is the game still as popular and the needs of the casinos to bring in different games vs the limited floor space they have to offer table games.

    Thinking back to the mid 2000s you would see Let it Ride, Caribbean Stud and Three Card Poker set up as multiple tables in just about every casino... as their popularity waned over the years you can still find the games out there, but they are just not *everywhere* like they used to be. Fire Bet is likely just going the same route: you'll be able to find it and play it somewhere, just as time goes by you will probably have to spend a little time tracking down a table.
     
  8. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Sadly I think this will go away before I can hit a six pointer or be on the table when someone hits one.

    UK and Auggie mentioning licensing fees could be the reason.

    Someone upthread mentioned Harrah's Philly having $5 min on it...I saw it when I was there before and thought it was odd. But then one of the Louisiana places I go to also has a $5 min on it.

    The A/S/T is fun too...Palazzo and Venetian took it off their tables. When I was there in July they told me they yanked it because they were getting killed
     
  9. JCW

    JCW Tourist

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    I've been lucky enough to hit 5 points on the fire bet "WITH" money on it a few times in Vegas and Tunica. But.... the worst was the time when I solo on a table early one morning, right before a WSOPC event in Tunica. I preceded to hit all six points with nothing on it. So many "what ifs" that morning.
     
  10. smerrian

    smerrian Low-Roller

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    According to The Wizard of Odds:
    The Fire Bet has a house edge of 20.86% (ouch!!!, is there a worse bet in the entire casino?)
    The All Small/Large has a house edge of 7.75% (still twice as bad as playing roulette)
    I think the shift from casinos offering the fire bet to them offering the all small/large bet is just in the amount of money invested by the player. The fire bet is a $1 or a $5 chip once in a while while the same player that likes this type of bet will be placing chips down several times over for the all small/large bets.
     
  11. Slotness

    Slotness Low-Roller

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    Speaking of Fire Bet; in AC I play the Fire Bet cause I won $ on it the first time I played it (smh). AC CET players: are they only paying on 5 points now where it used to be 4 or is the Grey Goose clouding my memory?
     
  12. pleepleus

    pleepleus 2016 - The monkey is back

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    That being said, why are people sad to see it go?

    If V/P already removed the ATS bet, shouldn't people play it more since a casino has realized it isn't profitable for them?
     
  13. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Yeah I don't care about the house edge on the fire...I play it because it is fun and has that dangling carrot of a big pay out at the end of completing the task.

    On non fire tables I have had extended rolls and hit all points but never lucky enough to hit it on a fire table.

    I have hit the A/S/T numerous times.
     
  14. smerrian

    smerrian Low-Roller

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    Yes, the Grey Goose is clouding your memory. The fire bets in AC pay the same as LV....$25 for 1 on making 4 points.
     
  15. Slotness

    Slotness Low-Roller

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    Damn, smerrian, schooled me twice in 10 mins. :nworthy:
    I could swear that in Oct. the fire bet only paid after 5 points and I KNOW it was 4 in the past.
     
  16. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    I was playing at the Palazzo yesterday and just realized how much money I save without the All or nothing. A seven on the come out is expensive if you have those things.
     
  17. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Yep!

    How did you do at Palazzo?

    I always play them for $5-10 each. That coupled with my horn high yo and a seven coming out blows. One session when I was feeling frisky I'd play a quarter across when I was shooting. Hit the small to save face a bit but yeah it can get expensive
     
  18. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    I won a bit of money. Just happened to notice how playing the good old original game of craps without the carny bets of all or nothing / firebet saves me a lot of money over a session. (Of course if you hit it it's different but that's so rare)
     
  19. pleepleus

    pleepleus 2016 - The monkey is back

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    Well, it is a carney bet... When it isn't hitting, we know it sucks. But when you can knock out all the numbers super fast, it's kind of exciting. Or just pisses you off because you crap out missing one number for the all completion.
     
  20. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    Yeah that was today. Missing the 12 twice. Lost so much money betting it on the hop.
     
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