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Table Games craps..best way to bet ?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by lucky13, Feb 4, 2013.

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  1. lucky13

    lucky13 Low-Roller

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    say i am at a 5.00 table should i play the passline and the comebet OR the passline bet and a place number? OR just play the place numbers?
    and why do you have to bet 6.00 on a 6 or 8 placebet but only 5.00 on the 5 and 9 ?
    usually i just do the passline bet , i do not back up my bet with odds, cause i really do not understand the advantage ....??
    passline betting is fun with a come bet now and then , but i want to step it up a bit on my next venture to las vegas
    so which is better a 10.00 come/passline bet or passline/place bet @11.00?
    anyone here do the single roll bets?
    fieldbets
    hardway? bets they seem to pay well if hit a few pay as well as roulette 35-1
     
  2. gpenguins67

    gpenguins67 High-Roller

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    So just the basics.
    When you make a pass line bet and you hit the number you get paid 1:1 on the passline. (doesn't matter what the number is).
    You want to back the passline with odds becuase they pay better than 1:1
    if the point is 4 or 10 you get paid 2:1 on the odds
    if the point is 5 or 9 you get paid 3:2 on the odds
    if the point is 6 or 8 you get paid 6:5 on the odds.

    say you had $15 to bet and you just put the $15 on the passline and the point was a 6 and you hit the six you would win your $15 back plus $15 for a total of $30. If you bet $5 on the pass line and backed it wil $10 in odds you would have won $5 for the passline bet + $12 on the odds bet plus your original $10 for a total of $32.
    Now take the same senario it the point was 4. $15 passline bet pays $15 + your original $15 bet for a total of $30 for hitting the number 4. Now take $5 on the passline and $10 odds and you hit the 4. You get paid $5 on the passline bet + $20 on the odds bet + your original $15 for a total of $40 win

    The come bet is the same as a passline bet. Where the come bet acts like a new passline bet and the odds you lay on the come bet are paid out just like the odds on a pass line.

    The question about why you need to bet multiple of $6 on a 6 or 8 placebet is simply becuase if you bet $5 they would need to pay you change.
    Payouts for place bets are as followed:
    4 and 10 pay 9:5
    5 and 9 pay 7:5
    6 and 8 pay 7:6

    So they ask you to bet $6 on the 6 and 8 so they can pay you $7 if you hit it. If you only bet $5 on the 6 or 8 they would have to pay you $5.83.

    Everyone has their own way to bet and their own strategies but i think everyone will say if you do play the pass or do not pass, make sure you back it with odds. Just as in my example about the same $15 will pay more if the you are playing the odds instead of just putting the $15 on the passline.
    Personally I play the passline with odds and place numbers. because you get paid everytime the numbers hit (but at a lesser rate than the come bet with odds). On the other hand my friend goes with the come bets with odds. This is great if numbers keep repeating. But don't forget if you are playing come bets and they shooter keeps throwing 2,3,12 they you are losing they come bet everytime. Really it comes down to the flow of the table. I love playing the hardways as well because i like having 9:1 or 7:1 payout for low amount invested. Personally my betting style does change depending on the flow of the table.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  3. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    The reason for betting in multiples of $6 on 6 and 8 for a place bet is that it pays $7 for every $6 bet
     
    First Trip 2017
  4. boxcars

    boxcars High-Roller

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    I like to put a minimum amount on the pass line, then back it up with odds. There is no house edge on the odds bet by itself (which is why the casino lets you take it down, add to it, subtract from it) all you want befor the bet is realized. Keep in mind there is a maximum amount you can put as odds.

    However, there is a casino edge when you factor in the pass line bet, which you have to because that's a "contract bet". Odds bets are always associated with a pass line or don't pass bet, but it's still one of the best bets in the casino by far.

    And don't listen to those who say you always have to max out odds in order to reduce house edge. Sure, it's technically true, but over thousands of hours of play. If you 7-out with hefty odds bets, that can wipe you out very quickly. Play at the level you're comfortable with, but I strongly recommend you take odds.

    Example 1: You have $10 on pass line. Point hits. You get paid flat, or an even $10.

    Example 2: You have $5 on pass line. Point is 10. You have $5 in odds. You get paid $5 flat, and 2:1, or $10 for the odds bet. You just made $15, or an extra $5 for the same $10 risk.

    Example 2 is how you take advantage of lower house edge...
     
  5. QuaDxAceZ

    QuaDxAceZ Tourist

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    there really isnt any reason to play the pass line if you arent going to back it up with odds. your better off placing a number with that $10
     
  6. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    Believe it or not, the most strategic way to bet craps is to bet the DON'T PASS line and back it up with full odds, according to the Wizard of Odds. Of course nobody plays this way because of peer pressure.

    Can someone comment on placing numbers when you have a DON'T PASS bet out there? How does that work? Does your bet stay up until the number is rolled and only win if 7 comes before the number?
     
  7. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    "there really isnt any reason to play the pass line if you arent going to back it up with odds. your better off placing a number with that $10"
    FALSE statement. House edge on pass line without odds: 1.41%. House edge on place bets: between 1.52% and 6.67%, depending upon number chosen. One is obviously NOT better off placing a number. Even without odds, the pass/don't pass bets offer the best odds -- albeit by a very small amount in some cases.

    "the most strategic way to bet craps is to bet the DON'T PASS line and back it up with full odds"
    TRUE, but the difference between pass and don't pass is so tiny that I have trouble caring. Based on a $10 bet, and 100 rolls per hour, the difference in expected loss is about 15 cents per hour.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2013
  8. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I'm just going with math here. There are many ways to play craps and all can be fun. While the hardways are kindof bad bets, throwing $1 chips out there won't completely kill your bankroll. I would suggest against only playing hardways for example.



    The 3 best(as in lose the least amount of money) bets on a craps table are

    Pass Line(or Come Line, same bet really)
    Place 6/8
    Buy 4/10(I'll ignore this now because you mentioned $5 tables. You should only bet this in increments of $25, it becomes a worse bet if you don't).

    All of these are around 1.4-1.6% house edge which is fairly good.



    I would initially put the minimum amount on the pass line.

    You then have a choice if you want to risk more money.

    1) Bet a few different numbers and place the 6 or place the 8. Simply throw out multiples of $6 to the dealer in front of you and tell them which number(s). The dealer will take the chips and place them for you.

    2) Bet more on the number the shooter just rolled. This is taking odds. Place this amount in back if your place line bet.

    3) Obviously can do both. :)


    #1 gives you more numbers to win on. #2 is losing less money since odds will pay better than the place bets in #1. I tend to prefer more numbers rather than fewer. It just makes the game more exciting to me when I'm hoping for 3+ numbers rather than just 1. Personal preference of course.



    Don't Pass vs Pass - IMO as a new shooter, bet the Pass Line. The Don't Pass is technically better, but every so slightly. You will not play enough craps to notice a difference in 1 trip. If you end up liking the game and want to try it out one time go for it.

    If you do bet the Don't Pass, I would suggest not screaming for joy when you win and everyone else on the table loses. :)
     
  9. lucky13

    lucky13 Low-Roller

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    numeno...are you saying you can bet the hardways for 1.00 on a 5.00 table ?
    i thought it had to be 5.00 min to match min table bets
     
  10. gpenguins67

    gpenguins67 High-Roller

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    nope.... even on a $5 table you can throw a buck on the hardways... and i beleive any of those bets in the middle of the board.... someone correct me if I am wrong on that.
     
  11. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    Depends on the casino. Anywhere in Vegas will let you throw $1 in the middle as long as you also have another bet out there, but I've been in a casino in Detroit and they say any bet has to meet the table minimum - needless to say, nobody is throwing $5-10 in the middle for the most part, which is just lost revenue for the casino.
     
  12. boxcars

    boxcars High-Roller

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    On the "dark side", aka the don't pass, etc., you get paid upon a 7 being rolled. However, if the number you're covering is rolled prior to a 7, you lose that number.

    Edit add: Keep in mind that the odds bet pays in reverse. For example, if the odds bet pays 6:5 on the points 6 and 8, it pays 5:6, or the exact opposite. You have to bet $6 to win $5. Sounds like not such a good deal, but odds of rolling a 7 are the highest out of any number.
     
  13. jhpa

    jhpa High-Roller

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    The OP has asked a number of different kind of questions. Some, like '"can I bet $1 on the hard ways or other center bets", have firm answers. Others answered these already.

    Then he asks questions about "what kind of bet should I make". There is no right or wrong answer. He should learn about the house advantage of bets. (Check out this great article: http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/ )
    This is the concept that relates the likelihood of a bet winning with the amount of the payout if you win. Every bet has a house advantage - meaning, in the proverbial long run, the house will win more than it loses on a bet. But some have a higher house advantage than others.

    However, while these house advantages play out "in the long run", craps players don't play in the long run, but in a series of short runs - a couple of hours at a time. In the short run, anything can happen. A 12 can be rolled 5 times in a row. The seven might not be thrown for 30 rolls. Who knows. That is why you can win - at least occassionally. It is why sometimes you can win placing "long shot" bets or lose even while playing the bets with the lowest house advantage.

    So what should you play? It is generally a good idea to make more bets where the house advantage is low and less bets where the house advantage is high. But you are there to have fun. Bet hunches (occassionally).Throw a $1 chip on a yo or hard eight every now and then. When you win, re-invest some (BUT NOT ALL) of your winnings by pressing your bets or increasing the number of place bets you have covered.
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I have an unusual craps question...

    ...and, given the wonderful resource that is this message board, I'm confident that one of my fellow degenerates has the answer...

    If I try the following, will it increase my probability of having a 'winning' session?:

    $10 pass line, $10 dont-pass, place the 6&8 for $6 each & the 5&9 for $5 each (excepting when one of those four numbers is the point). Take single odds behind the pass line & place two consecutive dont-come bets after the point is set. On the place bets, I would take two 'same-bet' wins on each combination & press them on subsequent hits.

    My off-the-cuff thinking is that the 'donts' offset my losses on a 7-out & my odds behind-the-line offset my dont-bets if the point is hit - but I could make money on the place bets in the meantime.
    I realize that a come-out 12 gives me a $10 loss, as does a 'point-7' roll or 'point-#-7' roll(-$42 or -$32)...but other than those three situations, is there another flaw I'm not considering?

    It seems to me that the majority of rolls consist of at least 3 rolls after the point, before hitting the point or rolling a 7. If that's true, then it would seem like a good way to hedge-play the place-bets.
    Thoughts?
     
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  15. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    It's been my experience that at almost any $5 or $10 table they are happy to take $1 bets on the inside stuff. Not sure if on $25 it changes to where they only allow nickels.
     
  16. QuaDxAceZ

    QuaDxAceZ Tourist

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    the table minimum applies to pass line,come bets,place bets..it does not apply to center action so yes you can throw a buck on hardways
     
  17. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Without any detailed analysis of that rather involved scheme, any time you 'hedge' your bets, (don't come and place numbers at the same time, for example), you end up reducing how much you can win and reducing how much you can lose. You squish the top and bottom of the bell curve of results. So you'll lose less, but you'll also win less. Overall, you're still giving up the combined house edge of all your bets, so you still have a solid negative expectation.

    My motto is 'never hedge, always press', so your scheme wouldn't be on my list of things to do.

    Betting pass and don't pass one the comeout just GUARANTEES you'll NEVER win anything on those bets, and will ALWAYS lose on the 12. Doesn't sound like a solid strategy to me (guaranteed loser).
     
  18. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    Just so I have this right in my head, is this correct:

    My bets:
    Don't Pass
    $6 each on the 6 and 8

    If 7 comes out after the point is established (assuming the point it not 6 or 8) I would get paid on my Don't Pass and $5 each on my 6 and 8. Of course if a 6 or 8 was rolled, that bet comes off the board.
     
  19. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    I agree- it was just in Detroit that I had ever seen it.
     
  20. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I'm assuming you placed the 6 and 8 for $6 instead of laying against them. If that's the case, what you said is wrong.

    After the point is established and the 7 comes, you'd get paid even money on the don't pass and LOSE both $6 bets on the 6 and 8. If the non-6/8 point is rolled, you lose your don't pass and the 6 and 8 do nothing. If the point is either 6 or 8 and is rolled, you win $7 (not $5) on the 6 or 8 and lose your flat bet on the don't pass.

    This method will dampen the swings in a big way (you often win a bet while losing another), but will also prevent you from winning very much at all.
     
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