Table Games Craps at Wynncore? A new horrible trend to come?

I LOVE the Royale tables. Its a completely different atmosphere than the tables I normally play at V/P. You have to be in the right state of mind to play there, and there are two ways I approach it. Either with massive odds trying to actually win money, or just play table minimums and cheer harder for $5 placebets and hardways than you ever do for bets 10x that size at most other casinos.

Its a great experience. I often hit it up right after I satisfy my late night craving for greasy Noble Roman's Pizza or White Castle!!

 

incompetent dealers with shitty attitudes, I'll play anywhere except CR

 

Yeah. I think they'll change course on the high rollers not being able to reserve 345X tables on the main floor - or at least allow normal odds for a particular minimum ($100-500?) pass/don't bet. But as many have mentioned, I don't think the number of low rollers who will revolt will be enough to matter much.

 

Are there any stats showing how much money casinos make on low limit craps tables vs black chip+ tables?

Is most of their profit coming from whales or regular joes?

 

This has been half true in my experience. I found the dealers when I was there were older and definitely not able to keep up with a huge amount of action as easily, but they were more than capable of running the show. And its about the only table still on the strip has a dedicated boxman, so that was a good crutch for the dealers (at least when I was there). They weren't friendly off the bat, (I think they put up with a lot of shit there) but once I played for them on the line with odds and did 2-way hardways I was treated like a king. Due to most of the clientele in there, they almost never get tipped (that I've seen) or if they do its a buck or two, so someone constantly giving them action was a nice change...especially on a hot table.

Same could be said for the cocktail waitress. I tipped her everytime I got a drink, and before I knew it she was bringing me one automatically everytime she did her rounds.

My only legit complaint about CR craps are the players. A lot of noobs hanging hands over the rail, or picking up/putting down chips after dice are out, shooters splashing the chips, etc.

But its still a great time, but like I said at first, you have to be in the right state of mind - semi-to-totally drunk, patient, and just looking for fun.

 

Just got this reply from my host at Aria who is very high on the totem pole. <br />
<br />
Packer, I heard about the changes the Wynn made…Sucks.. It is big news here on the strip. We still have the same odds here since Day One and we aren't changing anything anytime soon. See you next month.

 

Thanks Packer, I hope that is truly the case. I have rooms but no airfare booked for a trip in September and I love the Aria craps tables so that is a good thing to hear.

 

A couple points.

First, I think its a move by Wynn to reduce their unpaid exposure. Higher free odds increase variance to the house with no law of large numbers advantage. I think they are fine with losing that business, ESPECIALLY the High Roller portion.

Second, I think it is significantly different than 6/5 blackjack. Not so much from an expected value standpoint, but from a practical standpoint, at least in my anecdotal experience, on a craps table, the intimidation factor makes it less likely for someone to find novice players. Seems like craps virgins are almost always accompanied by experienced players. While not everyone plays max odds, I sense that most players UNDERSTAND them. Thus more players are likely to be offended.

Third, I do NOT see players increasing their pass line bets. A lot of people play the minimum, be it $10/$15/$25. The players who would be involved/informed enough to want to maintain the same overall action seem to me to be the type who would not play under these rules.

Fourth, I don't see this spreading to MGM/CET. I absolutely equate this to the no comp drinks at bartop video poker situation. It will alienate a group of players Wynn is fine with alienating. MGM/CET don't have enough cache to overcome that, and they are smart enough to know it. They need those players.

In summary, I think Wynn knows exactly what they are doing. I don't see them backtracking. They aren't in the gambling business. They are in the luxury hotel, restaurant, clubbing business. They ONLY want a gamble that is hugely to their advantage. They may THINK they are be able to afford to get away with this because they THINK are able to differentiate themselves in other ways. They will certainly lose a sizeable chunk of business, but higher holds may offset that, and decreased variance is good for their numbers.

Just as certainly as Wynn lost thousands each year in profits from my video poker losses in 2009 when they removed the bar top drink comps, they will now lose hundreds of thousands from just the craps players on this board. We are the same people who overtip everyone from cocktail servers to room attendants, and spend $75 on bacon/eggs or a burger from room service. I guarantee THOSE are higher house advantage than 6/5 anything

In the end I think its a fools errand. They are forgetting one of the key tenets of the gambling biz. To catch the fish, you've got to get them on the line. And to do that you MUST have a baited hook.

 

CAESARS?!?!?! You've got a better chance of getting a drink by going into any random retirement home and sitting down with a brick of hundreds and a deck of cards. The only difference is your more likely to get a younger cocktail waitress---AT THE RETIREMENT HOME. Caesars is like the land time didn't forget. To get a drink you have to go in their with an expert archeologist to even dig up one of those fossil cocktail servers. You have to bring-your-own-psychic with a Ouji board who is capable of communicating with the dead to put in a fucking drink order. but i digress...

 

Hahaha!

 

Maybe my calculations are a bit off.
But this seems to only affect the dark side players.
You can always just buy/place the point instead of putting it as odds

Fk

 

Your calculations are off a little

Place 6 or 8 = 7:6 Odds behind 6 or 8 = 6:5
Place 5 or 9 = 7:5 Odds behind 5 or 9 = 3:2
Place 4 or 10 = 9:5 Odds behind 4 or 10 = 2:1

 

For all but the high limit player, this is a non starter pretty much since most people dont take full odds.

This seems to be a very poor decision because those effected the most would be high limit players and those folks will just find another property for their craps action. Very poor move IMHO

 

Aside from them not caring much, isn't this annoying for you? You have to walk to a property you won't gamble at, get chips, place a pass line bet, have a point set, try to place the odds, get rejected, place the 2x, resolve the roll, and then colour and walk to the cages to get your money back.

Sure inconvenient for them and a gesture, but a lot of work to make the point.

 

at what dollar amount does it make a difference?
for 6 and 8. 10 pass 50 odds vs 10 pass 48 place is about a 4 dollar difference. I wonder if that is a deal breaker for many people

fk

 

They look at the very weak resistance of BJ changing from 2 to 1 to 6 to 5. So why not fleece the sheep on craps? People didn't object to the payout change on slots either. We bitch but then play by their rules. We have no power because we are hooked on the Las Vegas experience. One day they will have a charge to just walk into the casino and everyone will pay it. Many European casinos do this know.

 

Point is a 6 or 8,

10 pass with 50 odds = $70
10 pass with 20 odds & 30 place = $69
That is why this move by wynn is stupid.

 

That's the point.It probably will not be a deal breaker but should be.
I bet $50 on the passline and take $250 odds on the 6 or 8.
If I played at Wynn I would only get $100 odds.A significant reduction in a wager that has no HA.
I always take full odds and really hope this does not move to the MLife casinos.
Just another manifestation of the de-emphasis on casino gaming as retail$$ grow.

 

One thing no one is mentioning is the ability of variance to bankrupt a player before they can win. There is a reason hold doesn't equal house advantage.

Sure higher variance is the primary cause of big wins for players, but how many payers actually book. I think a ton of people gamble til they lose it all almost every single time.

 

My theory is all the execs are sabotaging their future competition just before they jump to Elan