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Table Games Craps 6 & 8 always working?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by DonnyC, May 8, 2013.

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  1. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    I like betting 6 & 8. I often have them always working, so that I don't miss it on a come out roll. Yes I run the risk of sevening out on them this way.

    Is there a difference in house advantage to having 6 & 8 always working?
     
  2. Vegas24_7

    Vegas24_7 Low-Roller

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    No. To have them always working, the casino edge for 6 & 8 is still the same so no increased house advantage. However, your exposure of your bankroll is now slightly increased since your average bet is higher during the same amount of time so you will theoretically lose more in dollar amounts over the same period of time vs the regular play of having them working only after the point is established.
     
  3. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    Why fade the seven on the come out roll also? You already have to fade it once the point is set, now you want to fade it 100% of the time? You say you don't want to miss out on hitting the 6/8 on the come out roll, but how about not having to worry about a 7 showing up on the come out roll? You will always be taking the worst of it.
     
  4. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    I like to press the 6 & 8 only after I have hit that number once, so the second time the number hits...I press. Therefore I don't want to miss a hit on one of those numbers by having them off on the come out roll.

    Does that make any sense, is it a good strategy...or am I still risking my bank roll more often?
     
  5. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    DonnyC, do what you want! There's not a thing wrong with working your bets on the come out. VegasBJ is just having some fun with you...unless you believe he's never made a negative EV bet.

    As mentioned, you are exposing yourself a few extra times per hour. But the HA per bet doesn't change. If you really like working on the come out and your bankroll is so tight that you're worried about the extra bets/hour, take an extra 30 seconds washing your hands each time you go to the washroom.
     
  6. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    I guess I am trying to evaluate if having them working, for the opportunity to press after hitting the Six or eight once? VS Not risking it for I could seven out.

    If I only work the six and eight after the come out roll I could have missed one of my hits that would allow me to press sooner but I do risk sevening out.

    Is the best play in this scenario not having them working?

    If I am flat betting the 6 & 8, then it sounds like 'not working' makes the most sense.

    Just trying to figure out if the same is true in a pressing system?
     
  7. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    Vegas24_7 and thecarve have already given you your answer! Betting the 6 or 8 on a come out roll is no worse (and no better) than on any other roll. The more rolls of the dice you bet, the more you'll tend to lose. The best strategy: never bet.
     
  8. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    We all know that rolling either a 6 or an 8 once is more probable than rolling a 7 once. So, if you're playing for a pressed win, (and they're both pressed evenly), you have a greater chance of 6/8 on the come out (and at all other times) than a 7, so I happen to think it's a 'good' bet.
    If I'm pressed on my 6/8 with 'winnings', I like to work them on the come-out too. But I take the one win (when it happens) and I back both of them down by $6....but still leave 'em working.
    Of course, I also have my hard-ways (when I have 'em) working on the come out as well... been burned too many times by having them "off" on the come-out.
     
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  9. woodsie

    woodsie Low-Roller

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    I always play 6 and 8, and I always press according to the following schedule.

    6, 12, 18, 24, 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 240

    I've gotten to 180 several times buts that's the highest I've been so far. It's not a winning strategy obviously but it does allow me to start slow yet still have some serious excitement on big rolls.

    Sometimes I'll pocket the first win before I press but once I start, I don't stop until the roll is over.
     
  10. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Many craps bets are personnel preference.
    For me I tend to have them off because I want to see a 7 on the Come Out roll and when a 7 appears you win and lose dued to the working 6 & 8. Its an emotional conflict on whether to be happy or sad so I keep it off on the come out roll to avoid this emotional conflict. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Vegas24_7

    Vegas24_7 Low-Roller

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    One thing you need to remember though that although it is true that you have ten chances to roll a 6 or 8 vs six chances to roll a loser 7, you are betting twice as much money in efforts to win slightly more than half.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  12. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    Pressing vs. flat betting

    Not to criticize you personally, because you and vast numbers of other players like to press their place bets as they go along. But compare your schedule to just flat betting $6 every time. Let's try 6 wins followed by a loss.

    Flat: 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
    Win: +7 +7 +7 +7 +7 +7 -6 = $36 net win
    (The win is what I added to my rack).

    Press: 6 12 18 24 30 60 90
    Win: +1 +8 +15 +22 +5 +40 -90 = $1 net win
    (The win is what I added to my rack, including the extra I had to put on the table to press.)

    So you pressed the win streak a pretty long way and only won $1, when you could have won $36. Obviously, different schedule set up different patterns, and with your progression if you can manage two more wins (8 wins followed by losing the $150 bet), you're FINALLY substantially better by $126 vs. $50. But how hard IS it to win 8 in a row?? (Pretty hard, that calculation is left as an exercise.)

    Six or fewer wins followed by a loss puts you worse off than a simple $6 flat bet, 4 of them losing money or just breaking even.

    WL: -11 vs. +1
    WWL: -9 vs. +8
    WWWL: 0 vs. +15
    WWWWL: +16 vs. +22
    WWWWWL: -9 vs. +29
    WWWWWWL: +1 vs. +36

    The problem with all positive progressions is that huge hit you take at the end where your biggest bet is always a loser.

    If you compare your schedule to flat betting $12 per hand, (which puts the average bet a little closer to what you're risking), flat betting is dramatically better.


    I'm just saying, perhaps all this pressing at the craps table isn't that mathematically sound.
     
  13. crapsguy5000

    crapsguy5000 Low-Roller

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    Never on a come out

    I never have a place bet work on the come out. All the craps sessions I've played it seems that the hot shooter rolls a lot of come out sevens. I've had a lot of Don't Come bets win on hot shooters this way as well!
    As far as pressing bets I think pressing every other win fit's me best. I'm pocketing profits first and then increasing bets for bigger wins using the houses money to bet back at them.
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Exactly how I play.

    Two total wins on 6/8 draws a $6 press on both. Then, "same bet" twice, winning another $28. Press both another $6... and so on. I always stop at $30 each, take two more wins & drop my bets back down to $12 each, (although they rarely last that long).
     
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  15. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    Last weekend in Tunica I saw some one betting across on the crapless table I can not remember the exact amt of his bet it varied between $170 and $250 across and was working on the come out roll. I saw him him lose that bet at least 10 times on the come out roll.
    It is just not something I would do.
     
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  16. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    I like this strategy. Do you actually call out 'same bet' so they know you are not pressing that time?

    I often have the dealers ask me if I am pressing, or they assume I am and i have to tell them 'not this time'. Just wondering if there is a better way to communicate with them when I sometimes want to press and other times not?
     
  17. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    This is exactly why I have them off as well. So that I'm not betting against myself (mentally)

    It's 100% personal preference.
     
  18. VegasSooner

    VegasSooner Tourist

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    This is wrong. You're double counting the amounts used to press by subtracting them out of the wins and again at the end when you subtract 90.

    Consider the money you take out of your rack vs. the money you add to it. Start with $100 and consider only the money currently in your rack. Place the $6 bet and your balance is $94. The six wins (subtracting out the press amounts) would then make your balance $101, $108, $115, $122, $157, and $192. After you lose the $90 bet, you still have the $192 in your rack for a $92 profit.
     
  19. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Yes.. I call out "Press" after a win, unless the win is $18 or more. Then, I call out "press them to 18" or "press them to 24" or "...to 30".
    When I am not pressing, I simply tell my croupier "same bet", and he pays me my win.

    edit-to-add: On the first press, I drop a red chip so they know I want both numbers taken up to $12.
     
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  20. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    No bet in a casino is mathematically sound.
     
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