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Counting on Video Blackjack

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by VegasSchemer, Mar 17, 2015.

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  1. VegasSchemer

    VegasSchemer Low-Roller

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    I found a videoblackjack survey online that talked about great games (.35%) house edge at Luxor and Exalibur. I figure that the best $5 game I can get on the Strip, so I'll give it a shot sometime. It also mentioned, however, that the different games around town are 4, 6, and 8 deck games. I always thought those games were like a CSM and anything was always on the table.

    In theory, could someone count at one of these machines then? Is there a new shoe starting each time one of those new dealers arrives? Just curious. I don't think (even with the safety of playing away from real dealers) I'd ever have the guts to really up my bets like counting requires.
     
  2. Frankr163

    Frankr163 Low-Roller

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    On video BJ, I believe that all hands are dealt from a new shuffle.
     
  3. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    No, you can't count on video blackjack. Each hand is dealt from a new "shuffle". Also, please link to the survey. Last time I looked at Excalibur/Luxor I saw nothing but terrible BJ (6/8 deck, no surrender, many 6:5.... and the few double decks are H17). The best games on the strip are the MGM/Mirage high limit double deck games found at MGM, Aria, Mirage, and Bellagio. They are almost always at least $100 minimum and are distinguished by the S17 (you will see "Dealer must stand on all 17's" instead of "Dealer Must Hit Soft 17" on the table). Hitting soft 17 nearly doubles the house edge. Don't even think about sitting at a 6:5 game....it quadruples the house edge.

    So, if someone is telling you to play BJ at Luxor or Excalibur, they likely don't know math. That said, if your stakes are $5, you're going to get bad games regardless of where you play (virtually all 6:5). Get all the free drinks you can, try to go to a party pit with hot dancers to enjoy, and have fun. Statistically speaking, the games you have access to at that level will most likely have you going down in flames very quickly; you might as well have fun doing it.
     
  4. VegasSchemer

    VegasSchemer Low-Roller

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    http://www.onlineblackjack.com/video-blackjack-vegas/

    This post is listing those big display games. It says the game is $5 with 3:2, S17, DAS with surrender even. I know some people only want to do the real thing but to me, those rules make up for having to sit and look at the screen.

    My question is then, what does it mean that these games have 6 decks or 8 decks if you couldn't count? Sounds like a CSM, not 6 or 8 decks.
     
  5. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    The number of decks still has an impact on the house edge, even if shuffled every hand. Statistically speaking, a virtual deck that is shuffled every hand, a CSM, and a hand shuffled game are all identical. The higher the number of decks, the higher the house edge (given consistent rules, of course). I haven't ever taken a close look at video BJ.....in passing I have always seen 6:5 (with some paying "2 for 1" - in other words, even money) and so I have always ignored them. I would carefully look at the rules for gotchas like the "2 for 1" scam before sitting down, but if this table of rules is accurate, then yes, the video BJ you are referring to at Excalibur/Luxor is better than anything you would find at their physical tables. As you can see on the table, the house edge on these games ranges from 0.35% up to 2.8%, with many of them looking very similar, so you need to be very careful.
     
  6. VegasSchemer

    VegasSchemer Low-Roller

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    Thanks for the insight, fish. It seemed like they wouldn't have that type of flaw just sitting out there to exploit.
     
  7. seviay

    seviay High-Roller

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    When I was at MGM last year, they had a 3:2 video blackjack machine that you could play for as little as $5. I actually won around $100 on it, but I like the camaraderie of high fiving players, shuffling chips, seeing and hearing the cards and chips come out. It felt too much like I was just playing a video game, so I didn't play that long. It sounds like they've done away with the 3:2 aspect of it, but I remember being so shocked that it was 3:2 that I checked it and read through all the rules twice. If they kept it at 3:2, it would be a really good way to grind out some cocktails at a very low house advantage
     
  8. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    Some machines, the one at Venetian, do have a shuffle. They take a little pause and shuffle the cards. The one at Excalibur as I recall did not pause. The Excalibur machine is $3 min bet as of Presidents day. Aria also has that machine by the Alibi bar for $5 min.
     
  9. dhlamar

    dhlamar Low-Roller

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    Let us know how you do on the video BJ when you get out there.
     
  10. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I might be wrong, but I think "Dealer's Angels" machines by Aruze may be countable. Most other games, yeah, I think they shuffle every hand.
     
  11. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    I believe that's what they have at Venetian. They take a break to shuffle. I laugh every time they do that.
     
  12. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    Do you directly tip the machine or place a bet for the dealer?
     
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  13. dhlamar

    dhlamar Low-Roller

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    Lol you just leave money on the machine and just walk away like at a restaurant.
     
  14. thunderdave

    thunderdave Low-Roller

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    I've played the Dealer's Angels at Venetian before, got super drunk and between the 3 of us, pulled out over $1000 for the session.
    I don't/can't count and realize it was all luck, but when your winning like that, it was damn fun!
    We eventually named all the dealers to fit their personality.
     
  15. lax35er

    lax35er Tourist

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    Palms has a video bj machine. Pays 3/2 four decks shuffles after 80 cards are dealt. $3 minimum bet.
     
  16. lax35er

    lax35er Tourist

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    Palms has video bj.4 deck $3 minimum bj pays 3/2 shuffles after 80 cards are dealt
     
  17. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    There seems to be some debate about this (I'm not sure what the rules on linking to other forums on here are, so I won't link for now). The machine apparently shows the dealer "shuffling" every few hands, but many think that this is for show only and the cards are actually randomized prior to each hand. I guess the only way to know for sure would be to play and see if more of a certain card appears than could ever occur in that number of decks between shuffles. Someone said they saw a 4 deck version of it shuffle after about 25 total player hands were dealt (not rounds - total hands). That would be ~30% penetration, which wouldn't do you alot of good for counting purposes anyway (forgetting the other potential problems you have with betting on a machine that can perfectly follow your betting patterns and knows the count at all times itself - there has never been a more foolproof way to spot card counters).

    Here is the product information page with a video of how it works. The video says the shuffle is "simulated" so it still doesn't really answer the question definitively. There is, however, a side bet on there that pays up to 5000:1. Because of the susceptibility of many sidebets to counting, I'd be shocked if casinos would allow these bets if the game wasn't shuffled every hand.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  18. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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  19. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    That video is very vague. But would the rule about how video card games have to be authentic apply to the shuffle? If they show a shuffle it should be a shuffle? But yes as I recall they shuffled a lot more then normal shoe games would shuffle. Although it would be easy to count with your cell phone as it would appear as your texting, surfing the web, etc. However the casino would have a record of your bets, so if they noticed a spike in betting they might come down and say something.
     
  20. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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