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Table Games Counting Cards Practice 6:5 DD BJ

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by wallycat55, Jan 22, 2016.

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  1. wallycat55

    wallycat55 Tourist

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    Long time lurker, first time poster. Just learning the concept of counting cards in BJ. Can usually get through counting a DD game but not a 6 deck game. My local casino offers a $10.00 DD 6:5 game and a $25.00 DD 3:2 game. the $25.00 game is a little higher than my bankroll for "practice" at counting. Is it worth it to play the $10.00 DD 6:5 if my priority is to just get some good practice in. Going to Vegas in 2 months and will have no problem sitting at a $25.00 table then. Just don't want to blow my bankroll before I go while getting some practice sessions in. Thought please.
     
  2. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    You don't need anyone's permission and you do need the practice. I can only get through about 3 rounds before I lose concentration.
     
  3. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    Most DD games in Vegas are counter traps. I don't understand how someone can count a DD game but not a 6/8D game.
     
  4. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    Dont play 6/5 period. You will likely lose more money playing 6/5 than you will ever gain by counting.
     
  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I'm one of them... I only play 3:2 DD games if I'm wanting to count (or try to). If I'm not going to count, I like CSMs and their perpetual "zero" count.
    As for being 'traps'... not so much for me... I'm a low-roller, with a base-bet of only $10 (most of the time). I will never spread more than 1-to-5, and more often, that's more like 1-4.
    I haven't caught much heat in well over 10 years... and the little I have caught was easily deflected (a few presses on zero or -1 counts, or stands on 16 vs a dealer 10 & they go back to ignoring you).

    I've read here on VMB about counting strategies for 6/8 deck games, but I've never felt comfortable with them... the basic "Hi-Lo" works quite well with DD games, so I stick with that.

    To the OP - I would suggest practicing your count using the wizard's simulator... or in Vegas, head to Gold Coast or Downtown...why would you ever willingly play a 6:5 game?

    As for your local casino, I would play the $25 3:2 table, or (if they have it) a $10 3:2, 6 or 8 deck shoe game....if you do a search here, you should find the thread where the "red-something or other" startegy is discussed.
    Practicing the 'Hi-Lo' count isn't really very tough though...so I'm assuming you just want 'real-world' use of the count to test it.
    I would do the $25 DD game, but that's me... I refuse to play a 6:5 game for any reason.
    Good luck!
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  6. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    This is absolutely true. Very small player-edge using a count. 6:5 more than eliminates that edge... it's that bad.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  7. h0und10

    h0und10 Low-Roller

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    Adderall is your friend :drunk:
     
  8. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    What is your goal? And how are you defining 'worth it'?

    The $10 game will have less variance, but a higher expected loss than the $25 game. The house edge on 6:5 is that bad.

    Also, all the practice in the world is unlikely to make you a super profitable counter with a marginal green chip bankroll. I'm not saying don't do it or don't practice, but temper your expectations. This should be primarily an entertainment thing. Guessing your bet spread will be minimal, and at a lot of double deck games you will get few hands at great counts before a shuffle. So even if you manage to make it an advantage game, the expected win would be tiny, and there would still be a lot of potential variance.

    If it were me, I'd practice a little online, and/or dealing with friends, and not bother with live practice pre-vegas. And I'd go in to the Vegas play with minimal expectations. Try to maintain the count, spread a little, and have some fun.
     
  9. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    If you want to practice in a live casino it's fine. The 6:5 will mean you loose an average of $9-$12 more an hour then a 3:2. To me that's not a big deal for real world practice.
     
  10. flyguyfl

    flyguyfl Low-Roller

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    There are various counting schemes. The simpler ones tend to give more advantage to the casino than the more complex. So how much concentration(work) you want to do matters too.
     
  11. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    Bally's had one or two $10 tables offering 3:2 by the cashier. You have to ask as it doesn't say it on the screen. The 6:5 one states it but one of the 3:2 tables never did unless you asked. It did say Surrender Allowed though. They went to $15 at busy times.
     
  12. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    I can see why you want to "do it for real" and you've gotten some good insight here. If I were you I would use online simulators until you can count a 6-8 deck perfectly, and have distractions while you do it.
    DD or 8d should make no difference. Don't even think of 6/5. Ever.
    If it is just too difficult, try an A-5 count system. Very simple with a very slight advantage.
    Do realize, even if you can do a true count perfectly your bankroll will need to weather horrible negative variances and losses. It happens. And counting can be a grind.
    It will take some time to get to where you can spread 8 or 10X at bet levels that make real money. And not get backed off or tresspassed.
    Best of luck.
     
  13. wallycat55

    wallycat55 Tourist

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    Thanks for all the insight. I can usually count a DD perfect but get distracted at my locals $5.00 6Deck game which is usually full. Not really trying to make money, just want to better my chances of coming out ahead in Vegas as opposed to down. Been using the high/lo count with spreading my bets between 1-6 or so.
     
  14. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    If it were me I would continue to play the $5 3:2 game, even though it is six or eight decks. Work on your ability to keep track of the count in a shoe game for your trips to Vegas. I would stay away from 6:5 at all costs but I would also guard against playing a better game at higher stakes if it's above your comfort level.

    Good luck, and as one of the posters above mentioned - make sure your total bankroll is significant enough to weather the inevitable swings in variance.
     
    Annual Summer Bliss in the Land of Milk and Honey!!!
  15. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    what counting system are you using?

    you should try on your computer before you ever go to a casino

    http://www.blackjackguru.net/card-counting (practice with that)

    NEVER play 6:5. if its all the casino offers then go to a different casino or play a different game, never show support for such a horrible game!
     
  16. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    If you have your AP down pat then you want to play heads up if you can anyway.
     
  17. flamingogo

    flamingogo Tourist

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    I would not practice on any 6:5 game. Just practice at home until you're perfect, then go to a casino and play 3:2. There will be more distractions but you should be able to get used to them quickly.

    I was in Vegas for a month in the summer, and for the first time played exclusively on $25-$50 double deck games. It can definitely be done. Just remember keep your sessions short and don't be super obvious. If you have a good 'act,' you can get away with a bigger spread/more time at the table. I found it really helpful to take notes on which dealers offered the best penetration, and actively searched them out. Good penetration is the most important factor when you're counting (aside from a playable game-3:2).
     
  18. Zapisocki

    Zapisocki Tourist

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    What's the penetration like? The 6 deck with 80 percent will be better than the DD with a 60 percent.... Just watch the true count
     
  19. TOWNSVILLE

    TOWNSVILLE Low-Roller

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    wallycat55 sounds like you have the same sort of problems as me.l also add alcohol to the equation.My last trip to Vegas l did my best to keep track of the count whilst playing.Anyhow l lost my money,caused some suspicion with the pit boss at one casino and had a great time playing.Cannot wait to get back.l have just about worn the backs off the cards l practice with.Will not give up trying to learn the game.Best of luck to you and do not give up!
     
  20. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Low-Roller

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    This may sound like a silly question, but what exactly is a "counter trap"? I understand that casinos obviously have an objective of "trapping" counters in one way or another... but a) how would counting play be more noticeable on DD as opposed to 6D/8D? and b) suppose a given table is a "counter trap"... what does that mean? Does that mean it's under greater scrutiny so that anyone who is seen to be a counter gets banned?

    I ask because I've heard this term thrown around a number of times and would like greater clarity on what it means.
     
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