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Table Games Continuous shuffle blackjack -- odds

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by AndrewJ, Jan 3, 2015.

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  1. AndrewJ

    AndrewJ Tourist

    Jan 1, 2015
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Last time I was in Vegas (October 2014), I had a few hours to kill and was staying at SLS, so I walked down to Riviera and played $1 blackjack. This was the first time I played $1 blackjack and I got really bored really quickly. I found that I ended up playing $5 hands which is what I usually do.

    I noticed that they collect the cards and feed them back into the machine and they, presumably, get reshuffled in there straight away.

    I'm curious to know how this affects odds vs. other tables where they play multi-deck but the cards played aren't added back into the mix. I did horrible at the Riviera. Could have just been me: I was taking lots of crazy (but fun) risks because the stakes were low. But somebody mentioned in passing that I should never play at those tables. The odds are greatly reduced when the cards are put back in the pot and reshuffled.

    Any insights here?
  2. Scottndindy

    Scottndindy Low-Roller

    Oct 1, 2011
    Indianapolis, IN
    It actually improves the odds for you to play at a CSM rather than a cut card game. The wizard of odds has a whole page devoted to this topic

    The thing you really need to pay attention to is the following rules:

    Does the table hit or stand on 17. It is tough to find a game that stands on all 17's less than 25 or 50 but that is the superior rule.
    Does BJ pay 6:5 or the traditional 3:2. 6:5 is dramatically worse for the player.

    Casinos like the automatic shuffle machines because dealers do not need to stop and reshuffle meaning the casinos makes more money.
  3. spicole

    spicole Low-Roller

    Oct 7, 2012
    Houston, TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    Thanks for the link. I was going to see if WoO had something on this but you saved me some time!

    AndrewJ - in addition to the increased number of hands per hour, the other reason the casinos like the CSMs is because it guards against card counting.
  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Jan 21, 2013
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    As others have pointed out. It actually lowers the house edge if you aren't counting. However, there is no need to shuffle the entire deck, so the unit gets more hands per hour in as well. So on an hourly loss basis, CSMs are probably slightly worse.

    Most important though are the other rules of the game. If a CSM is the only way you can play 3:2 BJ then it's much better than 6:5.
  5. finsfanscott

    finsfanscott Tourist

    Nov 21, 2009
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    House edge is only lowered if the number of decks used in a CSM game are lower than whatever game you are comparing to. Most CSM games use 4 decks, so all other rules being equal, house edge on a 4 deck CSM game would be better than a 6 deck shoe game and slightly worse than a double deck game.
  6. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Aug 8, 2012
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    I think the point tring is making is that count is always (hypothetically) zero on a CSM game.
    For a Basic Strategy, flat-bet player, that is ideal.
    A shoe game? Sure, it has positive runs, but it also has negative ones. And if you don't count & you flat bet, those negative runs kill ya.
    They don't happen nearly as often with a CSM. You tend to get a fairly even distribution of cards...perfect for the flat-betting, non-counter.

    EDIT-TO-ADD: A CSM would also be perfect for the "progression" player!
    I'll see you fellow degenerates in late February!
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