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Table Games Come Bets vs. Place Bets

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by elnoke, Mar 28, 2015.

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  1. elnoke

    elnoke Tourist

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    Hi Everyone,

    Long time lurker who has enjoyed this site for about a year. First thread started... Going back to Vegas in May and want my Craps game in top form.

    I have been playing craps for a few years and have a pretty good basic understanding but one question has me scratching my head. Do you prefer Come bets or Place bets? Is one better than the other?

    Here is my thinking... I'll use 6/8 as an example, I'll use dollar amounts that are easy to calculate:

    1. $60 place bets wins $70.
    2. $10 come bet + $50 full odds ($60 total) wins $10 for come and $60 for odds = $70 total.

    By my thinking, same amount ($60) wagered and same amount won ($70).

    For 5+9, $50 place wins $70. $10 come + $40 odds wins $10 + $60 = $70.

    I generally buy 4 and 10 if I want to play those numbers.

    To me, place bet is better because number only has to be hit once and not twice to win like a come bet. And on Come Out roll, $10 of come bet is at risk while $0 of place bet is at risk.

    Do I have a calculation wrong or I am missing something?? I am always wanting to learn something new and I appreciate any advice. I apologize if this discussion has been beat to death.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  2. h_upmann

    h_upmann Low-Roller

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    I'd say what you're missing is that, when the 7 comes, you win your current come bet and lose all earlier ones (including odds).
    You lose all place bets when a 7 is rolled.

    I prefer placing 6 and 8 to come bets. I can live with the slightly higher house advantage.
    Buying 4 or 10 with commission paid on win (seems to be the strip standard these days) is also okay if you're playing quarters.
     
  3. FXT

    FXT VIP Whale

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    If you play max odds, I think it would be better to place. I would prefer being able to pull my bets back at anytime versus getting back $10 when the 7 inevitably shows.
     
  4. buckeyestud

    buckeyestud Low-Roller

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    one other point - by going with the place bet your theo is higher as well since odds on the come bets are not factored into the equation.
     
  5. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    Yeah, someone actually ran through a scenario without getting caught up in the "optimum statistics" of the game...come bettors will disagree with your play, by stating that come bettors enjoy a statistical edge because a come bet "wins" if a seven is rolled...what they fail to mention is all the come bets LOSE when a seven is rolled on the come out and on a hot roll the come bettor has to start over and re-establish a series of come bets....while you, the place bettor is collecting $$$ on your place bets...the exception to your type of play (PLACE BETS) is if the table minimum is $1 and the max odds are 5X or greater...couple this with doing PUT bets instead of COME, then, no reason to do place bets...
     
  6. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yeah but what place bettors fail to mention

    is that point-7s will absolutely decimate you,

    while the come bettor only loses the odds on the pass.

    so you can really weather an ice storm that way.

    couple that with if you're a place bet presser,

    you're not taking much if any money off the table on the first hit anyway,

    the come bettor is safer against cold streaks.
     
  7. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    Yes, if you are an aggressive place bettor, betting $80 inside..$ 51 inside.. or any other combo after the come out roll...consecutive point...7 outs... will crush your bankroll pretty quickly...but, the game doesn't compel a bettor to bet anything right after the come out roll... a place bettor could play "conservatively" and wait till a come number was rolled, then make his place bet on that number...wait for the next come number...then make another place bet on that number....using the OP's example, the place bettor is getting the same payout as the come bettor, for the same $ at risk on that number, but, that was assuming max odds for each number....most come bettors do not put max odds on their come bet....if you do the math, just about every come bet made with less than 4X odds will pay less than a place bet made for the equivalent $ at risk...everyone has a particular "strategy" of betting...for the most part, a bettor's strategy was based on how the game was described/explained initially...for me, it was explained that the "worst" bets were those bets that occupied the largest parts of the table layout...e.g. center action, field, COME...the 'best" bets were the smallest areas....Don't Pass...Pass and free odds bet...which isn't even identified...
     
  8. Old Salty

    Old Salty Tourist

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    I like to start out with come bets but only after the shooter has "qualified". By that I mean show me naturals on the come out or a repeater after point is established. Then it's the basic 3 point molly until I win 3 bets. After that I convert the come bets to place bets as they hit. Win a couple more bets and place or buy another. Get 4 bets going and you might be on your way to a big win. If it keeps going gradually spread across. Then take, press, take, press on and on. Follow the dice rather than try to make it happen. This is bankroll management and the longer you are in the game, the better your chance of cashing in on a long hand.
     
  9. buckeyestud

    buckeyestud Low-Roller

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    A point-7 out crushes basically everyone except for a don't pass max odds bettor. Even when I play that way I will still throw 2-3 DC bets with odds out so even then a P7O within the first 1-2 rolls will still nullify a decent portion of my win.

    If you want to invest only a little bit rather than 'wait' for a qualified roller, why not just bet a little and press your bets once you've paid them off? I go with a pretty simple strat with Pass/Odds then place 6 and 8. Wait for any 2 hits on place bets then go up a unit on both, then after 1 hit take them both up again and later spread my bets as I feel like it.

    Example: Assuming $25 min craps. Place bet of $30 on both 6 and 8. Shooter rolls a 6 two times for $70 ($35x2) payout. Now you increase both the 6 and 8 to $36 so you've got a good amount of money out there but now it's only $2 invested (not counting Pass/Odds). Hit either 6 or 8 for $42 payout and now take both bets up another unit to $42 each. You've now covered your $25 pass bet. If one hits for $49 I'll drop $30 on 5 or 9 and after another hit cover the other number. Rinse and repeat until I have $42 on 6/8 with $30 on 4/5/9/10 (depending on where the point is). By doing this you've recovered the costs of my original investment and already come ahead a little bit so I am freerolling.

    On a solid roll it is a great way to make loads of money and I'm only on the hook for 2-3 bets initially. Once the inevitable 7 drops it hurts to see all the money go but if you want to get conservative you can start taking them down to protect winnings. To me there is no way that is more ideal and fun in craps than when you're cashing in on a dream roll where the shooter goes forever. The best roll I've seen in recent memory was 41 throws before hitting a 7 on a point 10. Guy didn't make a point but still there was a lot of money made for some even though were also a ton of people that missed the action as well.
     
  10. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    With Craps there is usually more than one way to make similar bets.
    A person's playing style and betting philosophy has a lot to do with how they bet.

    For the place and come bets look at two extreme scenarios.

    Scenario 1
    Player 1 sets the point then does a place bet on all numbers.
    Player 2 just does a Come bet each time.
    Each number hits once. Player 1 comes out ahead and Player 2 loses a lot of cash.


    Scenario 2
    Player 1 sets the point then does a place bet on all numbers.
    Player 2 just does a Come bet.
    Next roll is a 7. Player 2 wins and Player 1 loses a lot of cash.

    Utilizing the Come bet helps one to slowly increase the amount of action on the table.
    If the table is cold, Player 1 won't last long.
     
  11. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Exactly. It lets you weather cold streaks.
     
  12. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I do Scenario 2 player 2 when there are a lot of frustrating PSO's.
     
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  13. firstkill

    firstkill High-Roller

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    im the idiot that plays both,
    pass/odd plus place bets and come bet

    place what ever I feel and play the come. winning the place bet the original place bet and winnings go for max odds on the come bet.
     
  14. buckeyestud

    buckeyestud Low-Roller

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    So does a bankroll. Which is why I start with place bets and after blowing that finish with come bets or end up buying a bullet and renting a gun.

    http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lvDu3IysKiM/hqdefault.jpg
     
  15. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    I start with place bets and "same bet" until I get back what is on the table then press.
    If the table is cold I go to come bets to try to weather the cold streak.

    As stated above there is a dramatic difference in ratings for come vs.place bettors that essentially have the same exposure on the table.

    A basic quarter player with a pass line and 3 come bets will be rated as a $100 player and have $550 on the table.
    Approximately the same exposure for a place bettor will be rated at $425 plus.

    $25 pass plus $100 odds point of 5
    Place 6 and 8 for $150 ea .
    Place 9 for $100
     
  16. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    I don't really considering getting hammered into your deep bankroll to be "weathering".

    weathering is managing to stay close to even, even when things aren't going your way.
     
  17. Landshark

    Landshark Way into it...

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    Place bets allow me to get immediate action on the 6 and 8, while come bets leave your number to the mercy of the dice, plus you have to bang that point again to win. I'll take a place bet over the come bet any day.
     
  18. tex55

    tex55 Low-Roller

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    I have done both methods, and I find that using come bets lets me weather a cold table until a hot hand happens. Seeing the 7 right after the come-out roll is very demoralizing.
     
  19. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    I will play come bets when there is a trend of PSO's. Otherwise I like to place bet.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
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  20. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Losing money every time I play craps is very demoralizing. :evillaughing:
     
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