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Coin in vs. Actual Bankroll

Discussion in 'Comps' started by weluvvegas, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    Sonya, please feel free to move this if I should've posted it under the "gaming' section....

    What is the most agreed upon calculation to figure out coin in vs. your actual bankroll amount?

    Take my husband and I as an example. The past few trips, we don't play tables anymore....he's become a complete slot junkie. We bring about $2k and that is only for slot play...on average, penny machines at approx $1.50 - $3.00 per spin for I would say about 10-14 hours a day in all (give or take eating, sleeping, walking around etc) for a Fri/Sat/Sun visit? And let's say we gamble it all at one casino....that never happens but just for the basis of the calculation.....
     
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  2. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I doubt much of anyone could agree.

    I have seen $1,000 last all night and get $10,000 coin-in. I have also had times that $1000 of bankroll ends up at maybe $1,500 of coin in.

    And, it of course varies widely by machine. Some give lots of little wins. Some only give big wins.
     
  3. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    you should assume 500x your spin per hour, so 1.5*500*12*3 = 27k coin in.

    if this was video poker you would multiple that by 1.5 because that plays faster so you would have around 40k coin-in. (depending on the machine you play you can have an EV of as high as +$900 for the trip and as low as -10k) just be selective of what you play
     
  4. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    If you try to figure this out based on starting money it gets pretty complex because you have to factor in luck (both good and bad) versus how much time you play versus how much bet per spin, versus if you are betting at a level appropriate to your bankroll, etc

    But if you go by time you can get a good rough estimate:
    You need to know how long you play for: 10-14 hours per day in the example above, so we'll go with 12 hrs
    You need to know your average bet per spin: $1.50-3.00 in this example, so we'll say $2.25 in this case

    And then you have to know your average number of spins per hour. In this example we are talking about staying at just one casino the whole night so we'll estimate maybe 550 spins per hour.

    So that would put your coin in at:
    12 (hours) * 2.25 (avg bet) * 550 (spins per hour) = $14,850
     
  5. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    Thanks Auggie (and Bondy), I was hoping either you or BeeJay would chime in. That is so interesting. I was reading the other thread about average coin-in and how that affects comp offers so I was wondering what ours would be...approximately.

    I'd have to factor in that we usually are more down than up on any given day without any major hits. Neither of us have ever hit more than $300 at one machine. Forget about VP-- I always lose my ass at that. With our luck, one would wonder why we even go back to Vegas so often. We're chasing that big winning trip that is long overdue!
     
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  6. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    you need a big bankroll to play VP (at least 3k to play the $1.25 machines) but if you have it you can MAKE money, I know someone who makes an average of $12/hr playing video poker and has been doing it full time for a while, (I on the other hand have a MBA and I would rather be unemployed doing nothing than making $12/hr)
     
  7. sandman748

    sandman748 Low-Roller

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    Someone should be probably also point out the fact that with 22k coin in your expected loss is about $2000 on a penny machine. Of course this assumes that your "luck" doesnt deviate too far from theoretical loss.

    Not that Auggie's calculations are incorrect, but they also assume an infinite bankroll, which none of us have.

    Your long term coin in numbers will be (your bankroll) / 1 - (theoretical hold). In your case it is 2000/.09 (I'm assuming penny slots RTP is set at an average of 91%) .
     
  8. Bondy3

    Bondy3 Low-Roller

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    this assumes you arent playing a progressive, if you are playing against a progressive than your coin in will be less as your short term hold will be larger due to higher variance (also pennies have a 16% hold on strip, not 9%, the 9% is downtown and off strip, but hold isnt published so we dont really get to know)
     
  9. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Yes, this the thing...

    In my numbers I was stating almost $15,000 in coin in, but if you start with only $2,000 then you have to have some luck and be cycling your winnings back through.

    On our second trip back in 2011 we had such bad luck one day that normally we are able to cycle our bankroll through about 7-9 times and still have a few bucks left over for the level we play at... but that one day I got about 2.75 times before I was busted and my wife got about 5-6 times before she ran out of money.
     
  10. Kimsa70

    Kimsa70 High-Roller

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    I agree...with your assessment!
     
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I think you are asking, how much coin-in can I expect to get on a bankroll of $X?

    The only real way to track it is to give yourself a fixed starting slot bankroll for a day (or a trip), play until it's gone, and then figure out how much coin in you did by:

    1. Tracking your spins (pain in the ass)

    2. Determining from your player club points/credits, whatever (should be easy, except that different machines can credit you at different ratios)

    3. See if the player's club or a host can tell you.

    4. Look at your Win-Loss statement for a year. It says your coin-in was $15,000, your coin-out was $12,000, and your loss was $3,000. So essentially, it tells you you can expect to get $15,000 coin in on a bankroll of $3,000. And you can adjust that by remembering if you had a crappy year, a regular year, or a couple of handpays.

    All I know is, when I look at my Win/Loss statements, if I don't hit a handpay during a year, my slot loss is usually 20% or more of my coin in. That's a different calc than what you're asking for, though.
     
  12. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    All of those measurements only give you an answer for that day/trip. The next day will vary WIDELY.

    I dare anyone to tell me how much coin in I can get with $1,000 bankroll.

    Let me help. The low end of the range is $1,000 - meaning you did not get a single win. The high end... well, there is no answer. In theory, it could be millions of dollars. In reality, it somewhere between $1,000 and millions. NOBODY knows.
     
  13. kiwiboy1

    kiwiboy1 Low-Roller

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    Your right and your wrong. If a player plays $1.50 to $3.00 a spin then the maximum and minimum ARE known.

    If the player gets lucky and wins, they decide to max bet ($3 a spin) and they play all 24 hours in a day then the most they could do in a day averaging 500 spins an hour would be $36K in a day.

    Playing penny slots at $3 a spin it would be almost impossible to lose 333 straight spins without ANY return. Realistically the bottom end would be about a 50% return or about $2K coin-in.

    Of course if the player decided to play higher bets per spin then things would adjust.

    If we talk about "normal" results. Penny slots return 90%. If a player is lucky and gets to hit the average return then $1K should return about $10K of coin-in. If they are unlucky it would be closer to 75% or $4K of coin-in.
     
  14. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    The OP wanted to know a ratio between bankroll and coin-in. For the sake of a discussion, if you have $1000 to play, no matter what you play, the minimum coin in will be $1000. We should all agree on that.

    NOBODY knows the max. You only know that if you somehow know what the win is going to be on every spin, and therefore the money gets replayed, increasing the coin in. In fact, you state that the Max is known and then state it could be $10k or it could be $4k.

    Bottom line, nobody knows.
     
  15. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I'm going to go out and just give you a number. :)

    I do have 2 conditions though

    1) This assumes long term play. I like to give a rough estimate on how many points the casino expected me to get vs what I really got by spending my bankroll. I'm not expecting this amount of points. I am simply using it as a guide to know if I just had bad luck or good luck.

    I also use this as a guide on a day to day basis.


    2) I use 12% as the hold for penny slots. Above mentioned 9%(IMO too low), and 16%(might be true if a lot of your play is on large progressives).


    Anyway, take whatever hold % you want. I'll use 12. Take 100/12 which gets you 8.333...

    Now take that and just multiply it by your bankroll.


    $2000 *8.33 = ~$16600 coin in.

    BTW, if you increase to 16% you end with $12500 coin in.



    I'm sure you understand by now that this is not what you WILL get, but closer to what you SHOULD get if you have average luck.
     
  16. weluvvegas

    weluvvegas Vegas Slot Junkie

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    I would LOVE to check my win/loss statements but as you know...the MLife website SUCKS! :cuss:
     
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  17. snowball

    snowball Low-Roller

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    Thank you for this! I've been trying to figure it out for the longest time. Hubby and I go with a certain bank roll, and that is the max we pkay each day. I could never figure out how much coin in (approximatly) that we were playing.
     
  18. michael cevene

    michael cevene Tourist

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    different accounting system

    for me everything i read is like takeing a advance math class which i failed.
    last year was my first year to make diamond, and have been going to vegas for over forty years.
    I ask my host about a easy way to guessamate coin in (yes he said machine rates vary) 2012 ended up with 21,486 tier points - he said now times it by 5 (one tier per $5 in + u get some bonus tires) 105930 coin in approx. we made 8 trips to vegas and took $1000 per trip for gambling only. for us thats13241 coin in per $1000. But the kicker is and why i won't figure this out again or really care is - Sometimes we arrived friday afternoon and money was gone by the time we went to bed so we left on sat. - Sometimes we made money so went to show and/or higher end restruant. Sometimes we stayed a xtra day, sometimes we played higher limits which we would never normally do and sometimes we played for hours side by side. But we never took xtra money home. It's entertinment, the money you take to vegas stays in vegas.
     
  19. trooth

    trooth Low-Roller

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    Hard to tell. Luck is a major factor and what the machines you are playing are set for. Tight machine that has fewer but bigger pays are very volatile. Now if you get a loose machine that eats your money slowly you can get a better return. But then again a big hit on a tight machine can make your trip. For that reason there is really no definitive answer for you. I love my slots too. I have been lucky to get good play for my money last couple of trips.
     
  20. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    It is easy to figure out how much you did play, vs what you might play.

    Look at your total point before you go. Write it down.

    Look at your total points at the end. Depending on the casino, you then know exactly for THAT trip. For example, at CET you get 1 point for every $5 coin in.

    All those other theo, hold %, etc are just wild a$$ guesses.
     
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