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Coin-in/Coin-out Results Typical??

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by dooner, Mar 31, 2016.

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  1. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    As I had noted many months ago in a post, mLife now allows you to view coin in and coin out values for slots/vp on their website under tax info.

    Just got back from a trip (3 days) and looked at the totals (no jackpots)=

    Casino 1 = 74% (coin out divided by coin in) - about 80% was video poker (no quads of course)

    Casino 2 = 78% - about 80% was slot play


    I know I read about return on VP machines in the 97% range and slots in the 85%? range (I am sure someone could correct these numbers)

    When I look at my numbers, they look pretty dismal, but maybe they are not as bad as I think they are.

    What are your thoughts on the results? Typical?
     
  2. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    First, the expected returns are over a long period and assuming perfect play. Second, you still have to get lucky!
     
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  3. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    My first ten trips or so, my average loss on slots was between 15% - 20%, usually closer to 20%, and it was consistent.

    The last few trips I've been hitting handpays, and it's moved to 5% - 10%
     
  4. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    These numbers are similar to mine over the years (I went back to previous years). No handpays or jackpots, but some good luck/hits can definitely help. Just made the switch to video poker last two trips and getting hammered (literally at the bars and figuratively at the machines) on the results. Numbers in the 25% loss hurts!
     
  5. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Also in video poker about 2% of the payout is in the Royal. So if you're behind on hitting royals your return suffers. Plus if you're in a 4oak drought it will put a damper on your return as well.
     
  6. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    For whatever reason, people don't like to break even or win just a little. Many people play until they either win a lot or run out of money we wish to gamble with. This is the reason the casinos could raises the payouts and still make money. If you were to just play for x amount of time, I think your observed rate of return would come closer to the expected rate of return.
     
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    If the best hand you make in DDB is a full house, your average return will be about 75.5% at 8/5 DDB, so Casino 1 isn't too unreasonable IF you mostly played DDB...I dunno what game you actually played. If you were playing 6/5 Bonus instead, then you would had to run quite bad, you would expect a 86.5% return without quads there.

    And Casino 2, 78% can still happen at the slots if things don't go well.

    Sounds like this was one of those bottom 10% trips that make some people begin to question why they go to Vegas. Hopefully the next trip will be better!
     
  8. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    Thanks for the information everyone and Tring!

    I was playing DDB without a quad - so Casino 1 was what I expected. Casino 2 was just poor luck with slots - which I am famous for! If I could only stay away from the evil things!!! I actually like the distraction and enjoy playing all the new slots out there, so without any large wins/bonuses, this bad run is quite possible (plus I always play max and that means less chances at bonuses I feel).
     
  9. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Clearly denomination vs your bankroll, and also just the size of your bankroll also plays a role. The more spins/hands you play, the more likely you are to get closer to the theo of the machine.

    In my case, the average denom I played didn't change that much when I was losing 20% vs the last few trips where it was closer to 10%. But my starting bankroll increased by about 50%. Getting off to a good start on a trip variance-wise also helps. Being up or flat after a couple of days is a much different place to be in mentally than reducing your loss near the end.
     
  10. merlin

    merlin VIP Whale

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    How do you track coin in/out that accurately?
     
  11. adbynot

    adbynot High-Roller

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    Either by checking your players card in the machine when you start, and if it's Mlife, you can look online in tax info and it shows your coin-in/out
     
  12. Fligster

    Fligster High-Roller

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    I just checked mine from February trip, and it was 94.77%. All slots at bellagio.
     
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  13. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    Wish I had numbers that high. Best has been 82% from 2011.
     
  14. Multifarious5

    Multifarious5 High-Roller

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    Holy smokes! Great job! I'm staying at Bellagio for the first time on my next trip, and I was braced for tighter slots. Now, they very well might be still tight, as good numbers for one person doesn't guarantee squat, but that definitely gives me hope. At my last two homebases last trip, I was right around 87% (86.19 and 87.3%---no handpays) at both homebases on slots, and I play pretty conservatively (as in I try to make my money last as long as possible, and I bet on average, 50 cents to a 1.50$ a spin). Trip prior was between 85% and 86% (no hand pays) .... 94.77% kicks butt!
     
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  15. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Best?? Approximately how many spins you pulling off in a year? That's particularly rough. :( You have any years below 75%? I have some years in the high 70s-low 80s...but my spin sample size that year was likely in the hundreds, so it's not too surprising. I minimally play MLife. Last year was my biggest at $2600 coin-in (yes, lol) with a 120% return (Thanks Gold Strike Tunica!). I wish CET and Boyd broke it down like this.

    Your numbers are unfortunately what I would expect for penny slots when you don't hit big anywhere and play for a fairly long time. Bellagio could be marginally higher (they seem to have some older games, which tend to be set a bit higher because changing payback requires people to work), but it's probably 1-2% higher than the strip average at the very best. Unfortunately NV doesn't make individual casino paybacks public like many other states.
     
  16. Multifarious5

    Multifarious5 High-Roller

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    Hi Tringlo! Thanks for the great reply. I know quarter and dollar slots are higher on payout, I just like the games better on penny slots. So, I accept lower return as the price of my penny slot poison, (and am more than happy with what I get back in comps), but seeing 94% makes me reconsider this stance against 25 cent/dollar slots! (Though, I am a degenerate when in Vegas, my coin in is a lot higher than 2600, giving them plenty of spins to bleed me dry. :D) Also, I AM excited that, you too, think Bellagio could be a better stomping ground than I thought!
     
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  17. marksind

    marksind Low-Roller

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    Since I don't play for comps I don't track "coin-in." Is it the amount you initially deposit in the machine, or the amount you run through before you cash out? If it's the latter, won't you take a haircut each time you revolve your initial deposit before cashing out? In that case, how do you come up with an expected return (or should I say loss) on your gambling? If it's the former, then your experience is pretty far below the theoretical payback on most video poker pay tables.

    That said, I play most VP games pretty well on the best pay tables I can find and haven't had a good trip in the last four, generally ending up with about half my bankroll after a four or five day trip. My last trip was a week over the first couple of rounds of the NCAA tournament. Can't say how many hours of VP I played. I had only three quads the whole time, and of course each happened during the maybe 5% of the time I was playing Dueces Wild. On the other hand, during a May trip last year I was dealt a royal flush at the DTG on $10 of free play. Sort of like golf - it's the occasional great shot that keeps a lot of us coming back.
     
  18. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    I love breaking even or winning a little! Both > Losing. If I could win $50 every trip I'd be happy as I view it as entertainment, obviously I'd want big wins (who doesn't)

    Great work again!
     
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  19. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Coin in is how much money is cycled through the machine. It doesn't matter how much you initially feed in. Each time you hit deal/spin. It's that much more coin in. People are comparing their actual win/loss versus the expected loss based on coin in and house edge. Like with $100 you can expect more than just 80 hands of 25ยข vp. Let's say you played for an hour but went bust after 500 hands. That's $560 coin in. That's a bad bad run of luck. And in the short term you could have high percent losses like that but over time it will get closer to the expected return %.
     
  20. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    Went through numbers once again and since 2009 (the farthest the MLife records go back) I had one year 88% (only about $5000 coin-in that year though), the rest were between 75% and 82%). Not a lot of coin-in though (most in one year was about $20000) - only 3 in the 75 - 78% range. Video poker was only played in late 2015 and 2016, so these results were mainly penny slots at max bet. No hand pays or 'jackpots' ever in that time.

    I do consider myself unlucky, however, my regular Vegas partner's numbers are worst than mine - so I feel like a stud when playing next to him!!
     
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