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Cheated (in my mind) at the TI

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by Tellafriend, Dec 22, 2012.

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  1. Tellafriend

    Tellafriend High-Roller

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    I was in town staying at MB w/ a group of 3 friends in Nov 2012. One had been 2x, one 1x, and one was a newbie. So, i was playing host and not focused too heavily on my gambling. I visit Vegas roughly 6-10 times a year from coast of Ga. My host at MB owes me (as does my EC balance) more than he could ever repay; so from time to time i drop in for a few days or weeks and just play poker and he will swallow the bill. So, we were all just out for a good time. Two of them jumped off the Strat. I couldn't find the courage, but they loved it. We went to shows, etc. Which is what brought us to the TI. I wanted to show them the "pirate" show. Unforutntely, it had started to rain .... so they said. In truth, it might have sprinkled for a few minutes, so they cancelled the early show. So, we decided to spend a few minutes waiting on a drink at a roulette table.

    Roulette is my game of choice. Its a sick, sick game. The high you can get off of it when betting and winning big is amazing. I play it hard. I have more than a two dozen hits for over $40k on a spin. When you can hit those back to back its unreal. The losses can be as well when your missing. So, i try to only play the single 0 game to give me a better chance. Roulette has changed my gambling. Sitting at a $500 BJ game is just boring to me now. I realize how this sounds, but it is what it is, so no apologies.

    As an aside, add up every number on a roulette board; then you will understand why it's the devil's game of choice.

    So, my buddies are low rollers. They head to the 00 game and play rouhgly $30 per spin. Adjacent to it happen to sit a 0 game, which is unusal as it is not normally open. I've brought roughly $12-13k in cash for our sojurn down the strip. I buy in for $3k. All on one spin. Lose. Buy in again, $3k. Lost again. Buy in again, getting adjitated, still don't have the drink i ordered so its about to turn in to a $9k drink. Anyway, third try is not the charm and I'm not happy. $9k loss in under 5 minutes.

    Now, the way I play normally is to have about 7 really big bet numbers, then about 7 average numbers which will return me some profit, and then 4 numbers which will push my action for a free spin. So, this was one one somewhere in between. I don't remember the number now, but my numbers, at least the big ones are always: 0, 17, 20, 28, 29, 31, & 32. Always. Medium ones include: 9, 12, 18, 19, 25, & 26. Small ones vary depending on what i'm feeling.

    So, i wake up and realize why the hell do i want to give this much money to this place where i'm not staying and not enjoying nor earning EC. So, i switch tables to where my buddies are. They are having fun and finally our first round of drinks find us. Really dissappointing b/c one of them pre-tipped her $5 which didn't serve its purpose. Anyway, by now word of my play had reached upstairs and i start to notice a table of suits across from us start filling up. It was a row of BJ tables that were empty. I'd say 4-5 suits men and women who were doing nothing more than watching me play, no interaction with the pitt boss. Moreover, on my right comes another suit who slowly walks by the game and the walks next to the high limit room and props his back up to the wall and continues to watch.

    Now on to the game. So, i bet probably $2k and shit hits a 29. Thank you Jesus! It paid me roughly $6k, so i'm a little happier, the drink is 1/2 way gone and i've re-ordered another one. I tell the dealer if she hits it again I will give her $500. What do you know, the next number was 29. She gets her toke and I now book a profit. Of course at this point they changed dealers. Jackasses. They weren't too quick to do that when I was stuck on the adjacent table.

    Well by now the pitt bosses is pacing around and a new one enters the picture. An Asian fellow who was very demanding of his dealers. Kind of hollering at them but under his breath. Some of it was hard to decipher. Anyway, I bet and boom, another good number, 28 I think. By this point I've got all my $ back plus another $8k. The next round of drinks is there and I'm feeling good about things.

    Then it happens. The Asian fellow isn't pleased with my winning, so under his breath he tells the dealer to change balls and SPIN! I haven't even finished placing my bets. The dealer doens't, so he goes up to him and yells at him to "change ball, SPIN!"

    For those of you who don't play roulette know this, they will NEVER change the ball on you. Never. If your play warrants it, you can request that they change balls. There is one bigger one and one smaller one. I typically prefer the bigger ones, but I digress.

    I said what the fuck are you doing?! Your trying to cheat me! I yelled STOP! Don't spin shit. What the fuck are you doing? Then the Asian boss comes over and tells me that their policy is to change the ball on every spin. Now, this really fired me up. I told him he was a fucking liar (yes my language) and now I'm really pissed. I have played in every casino on the Strip, no one does that and more importantly, i've played here now for 30 minutes and you haven't chagned the ball once unitl i started winning. I said your tyring to cheat me and you know it. HE couldn't say anything but it was their policy. So, now I look over to the table of suits and tell them that they are trying to cheat me and they know it. That any of them could come over here and explain to me why he was doing this. They just sat there in horror. I told the dealer to pick up every chip i had on the board and to color them up. Meanwhile i continue my tirade on the boss. Telling him that the reason his casino was empty and there were no real players was b/c of childish bullshit like this. I had heard him tell the guy to change the ball and oh, and by the way, hurry up. The purpsoe was so I wouldn't finish betting and my patterns and bet size would be off. I told him it was their place and they could do what they wanted, but to do it under your breath in a secretative manner was cowardly and wrong and I'd never be back. I was furious. I dared them to kick me out, call security or do anything. They didn't. All they did was sit there and watch and hope someone else would intervene. No one did. He gave me my chips and .....

    as i am walking out with their $, i head towards the suit by the HL room who by this time i determine is the casino manager. I was going to let him know what I thought of their shannanigans. Before I could reach him the non Asian boss comes running around me and got in between the manager and I. He tried to re-introdue himself and before I could cuss him out again his first words to me were that he was sorry, they shouldn't of done that and were wrong....

    I accepted his apology. It was the only thing he could have said that would have calmed me. The other guy was the manager and he too apologized. I am certain there were some ass whoppings that evening at the TI.

    It was a bullshit ploy and chicken shit. That would have never, ever happened at the B, Aria, or for that matter any other property. Sure, i'm used to them changing dealers on me, but unilaterally and secretly changing the ball and then telling the dealer to "hurry up and SPIN." No, never. So, i walked out with their $ and went to the Forum shops were I purchased the new Rolex I'd admired.

    Had I stayed and they not done this, the table max of $200 would have almost certainly of caught up with me and they would have at least gotten their $ back if not a little of mine. I won't gambe there again. How stupid, they are cheating me, the biggest gambler on the floor, on a game with the best house odds. Their loss.

    I'm thinking of having my watch engraved: "With Love, TI"
     
  2. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    Wow, three hits and they pull this crap on you, on Roulette of all games!

    You had every right to be angry, and walk with your money.
     
  3. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    That is a shame they treated you like that especially considering they were down only $8k which even for a much smaller casino shouldn't be anything to sweat. It was probably just a stupid pit boss. Look on the bright side-- like you said you would have probably ended up losing it all soon anyway just like those first three spins.

    Mind if I ask what you do for a living to get the free time to go to Vegas that often and risk a lot on roulette? I want that job-- minus the roulette :)
     
  4. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    GREAT story Man!!!

    awesome hit and run. This morning I was playing some freeplay off at Local casino and saw something that pained me. I play almost the same numbers as you but only 13 total numbers with heavier betting on 2-0-28 and 17-20-32. With 17 being the big dog.

    I went by a table that had 2-28-2-20-17 and after I sat at my VP machine that POS hit 17 again!!! and the table errupted because everyone was pressing it. The dealer said "Merry Christmas". That run for me would probably normally be $5k, for you probably $50k, lol.

    Anyway I want to mention a couple "cheatings" I've experienced at roulette. One was at Golden Nugget where I had $85 straight up on #17 and $30 split on 17/20 so I knew the pay was just under $3,500 cause it was almost the same as $100 straight up. Well they insisted mutliple times the win only paid $1700 something, basically they were calc'ing the $85 as a split also. It took the pit boss and a threat to call gaming to get paid properly, which I finally did, and I still reported it to gaming.

    The second was almost as bad. I hit a spin at Wynn for $5,200 and they tried to pay me $3,200. It only took asking twice and being recognized by the pit boss to fix that, but while Golden Nugget seemed like incompetence, something about Wynn seemed more sinister.

    Fast forward to last week, I hit at Caesars with $65 straight up and $25 split, which these days is big for me. Now I just pull out the calculator on the phone and make sure I don't touch anything till they've paid all the bets.

    You situation reminds me of William Macy in "The Cooler". I give you MAD PROPS for calling them out on that shit. Casinos are basically drug dealers selling dopamine with a different delivery system. I have nothing against the front line dealers & pit bosses, they are just scrubs in the pits, but in my experience the hosts, casino managers, execs are scumbag of the earth used-car salesman who would steal candy from a baby and shank their own grandmother for a dollar. It's nice to see someone really stick it to one of those cocksuckers. NICE WORK!!!:nworthy:
     
  5. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Definitely a poor move by the casino, especially at a roulette table where the odds are so heavy in the house's favor. But I must be missing the part where the house cheated? I play roulette rarely. Does the size of the ball impact the house edge? That's very different than, say, them shorting you on a payout like BeeJay describes. Edcuate me. What am I missing here?
     
  6. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    I love it!:peace:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2012
  7. Canyonero

    Canyonero Tourist

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    So, how was TI trying to cheat you? I don't get it. Are you saying the new ball they brought in was manipulated? How? Or the new dealer was a mechanic somehow? Too much of a conspiracy theory for me.

    I really don't see what you got so worked up about. At least you put the "in my mind" part in the title...
     
  8. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    Cheated might be a strong word but definitely treated like scum. The casinos shouldn't do that to anyone who isn't causing trouble but you'd think they'd be especially careful not to do that to someone who they'll like take thousands from in a matter of minutes. I can understand the OPs feelings.
     
  9. matguy

    matguy High-Roller

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    To the "how was he being cheated" questioners, I personally don't think the ball change was cheating, annoying and whatnot, sure. The part I don't like is how the Pit Boss tells him to "Change ball and spin", as in hurry up and spin to get it going before the guy has a chance to assess the change and put down his bet.

    When you make a change to the game itself, the ball, and then try to hurry it up, that purposely takes time away from the better to get his full bet down as he's assessing the ball change. They are trying to distract him and hurry him up at the same time, then citing policy that, even if it's a policy they have written somewhere, they're not following otherwise.

    The best action on that is to do exactly what he did, well, maybe less colorfully, but to walk out with the winnings.

    I think I remember seeing/hearing somewhere that casinos cheating players just gets in the way of casino profits. It's not a very fine line to make sure the player has a feeling that they could win while the house still has plenty of an edge, I don't know why casinos often feel like the have to cross it. (I mean, I do know why, but I think it's a false economy.)
     
  10. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    Glad you stuck it to them and called it out. What petty bullshit.

    While this isn't strictly cheating, in their minds it probably kind of is. Which makes it more sleazy.

    Given a game where we all know the rules and the procedures, the house edge is known. And you agreed by those terms as did they.

    They are trying to gain what they thought was an advantage over you outside those terms because you made the cardinal sin of winning.

    Dumb, petty move and they needed to be called on it.

    Enjoy the Rollie!
     
  11. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

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    Personally, I would have ejected you from the casino and barred you. There's no excuse for your profanity laced tirade, nor for your baseless accusations of cheating.
     
  12. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Definitely poor form. But I think you hit upon my question: does the change in ball in any way effect the wagers or the numbers likely to be hit? I asusming it does not, but really want to know if I am wrong. I've seen ball changes and ball faults (or whatever they call it when the ball pops out of the wheel), but I have never even considered changing my bets because of that. I think my numbers have the exact same odds of hitting regardless of the ball
     
  13. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    Fair point. His action wasn't nearly enough to make them care about putting up with his attitude. But that was after they already started to pull the ball switching thing on him. I'm not a roulette player so I'll take him on his word that they never change the ball while someone is playing. He had a right to be upset-- but you're right after he started cursing he had no ground left to stand on.
     
  14. LolaDoggie

    LolaDoggie VIP Whale

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    So basically, they're counting on us being drunk, distracted or stupid and not knowing how much we should be paid when we do win. Because they don't make enough money off us to start with. They have to try to squeeze a little bit more. :nono:
     
  15. VegasLover8

    VegasLover8 Low-Roller

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    I am not a roulette player. So I do not know about switching balls and such.

    But to me as a craps player, it would be akin to them switching dice on me without my consent during a hot roll.
     
  16. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    +1 a more reserved but direct response would have sufficed.....the profanity was definitely bad form.
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I hear ya. Of course, I'm the craps player who never calls same dice when they bounce out. They are all cubes with the same dots to me
     
  18. JDinTN

    JDinTN MIA

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    He'd hardly be the first player who feels its ok to act profane because they decide to gamble more than others -- kind of like the alcoholic in the bar who thinks its ok to act like a jerk because he's a regular customer :nono:
     
  19. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    Lot of anti-profanity posts here.

    I admit that it may get you further if you leave the f-bombs out...


    but what's worse, trying to chisel a few thousand dollars out of a guy's wallet by messing with the game, or telling the to go fuck themselves for trying it?


    I guess my position is you will probably get further if you don't swear at them, but I don't see how it is inappropriate or out of context in the casino environment.
     
  20. Film-Noir

    Film-Noir High-Roller

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    /slap TI

    I agree w/Nate,
    It's almost as rude as in craps the stickman, hitting the Shooters hand w/the Rake. So no, his actions were his own, he had $$ at risk, & glad he took them for every penney he earned!

    Freedon of choice=Freedon to Walk!

    Congrats Tell!
     
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