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Slots Casino Trend Away from Slots

Discussion in 'Slots' started by bshowell, Sep 28, 2015.

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  1. bshowell

    bshowell VIP Whale

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  2. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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  4. Ty

    Ty ?

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    I saw that article this morning. I don't really see the bubble craps and virtual blackjack/roulette squeezing out a bunch of slots machines. It seems one bubble craps machine could displace 16 or so slot machines, so when you consider a casino might have 1500-2000 slot machines it won't make much difference.

    IMO
     
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  5. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I see the trend in the other direction.
    Sure, Vegas total slots are declined, but that's because the overall slots in the US are increasing like crazy with so many new casinos popping up.
     
  6. whitefox

    whitefox Tourist

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    I'm not a big slot player, but I'm very curious to see what kind of arcade/skill slots and game mechanics pop up in the next couple years now that Nevada has legalized them.

    I've seen the skill-based pinball slot, but other than that I'm still trying to wrap my head around the concept and how it will play out in practice.
     
  7. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    it will be like skeet, hoops and other arcade games.

    when people practice enough they can get good enough to beat the games.

    however, just like where they ban you from the arcade for winning all the tickets on one quarter,

    you can be sure they will walk people who get too good at the games.
     
  8. zing

    zing Low-Roller

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    I don't think the games will actually be beatable... you'll just get a higher payback percentage if you're good, and lower if you're bad. There'll still be a house edge built in though.
     
  9. whitefox

    whitefox Tourist

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    I agree -- I'm guessing they will be a lot like modern digital arcade games. My wife and I go to Dave and Busters quite a bit and most of the digital games' payouts are able to be altered by adjusting the settings.

    It's more complicated than this but basically any time a jackpot is hit the game gets more difficult to hit a jackpot until so much coin-in.

    I'm guessing there will be a lot of opportunity early on to capitalize on incorrect settings (eg. machines pay too much, aren't optimized properly, are able to identify when a jackpot is possible) much like arcade games at places like Dave and Busters are able to be exploited if you know what you're looking for.

    Can't wait!
     
  10. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Isn't video poker already like that?
     
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  11. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Poorly written article. They make it sound extremely difficult to change payouts, even though there are now server based slots with easier rules for changing payback percentage, the casino could replace stingier titles with looser ones as leases on games expire and everyone knows they can change paytables on VP whenever they want. They are choosing not to put in looser slots even though it's costing them business. From my perspective, the real story is about casino changes to draw younger gamblers. Since I keep seeing it in the Money and Finance section of various websites, I would think an investor would want know if they have reason to believe this stuff would help retain existing customers as well.
     
  12. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    I believe changing of VP paytables has to go through the same process of changing a slot pay percentage..
     
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  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yes, but we also are now talking about games that require physical dexterity now. Which means "I'm out." And the pinball game that NanoTech keeps pimping on WoV and 2+2 can occasionally go positive.

    As for traditional slots, young people are caring less. Problem with e-table games though, it's pretty doubtful they make the money per sq. ft. that slots do. The golden age for casinos is over, imo.

    Yes, four minute idle period minimum, and the machine must be shut down during the slot/vp paytable/denomination change. Missouri copied the law from Nevada, but I assume if Missouri utilizes the option, they do it during the mandatory closing period each week (at least one hour per week).

    I agree with leo, the article sucks. I could have written a better one.
     
  14. melbedewy

    melbedewy Low-Roller

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    People like to WIN or at the least see with their own eyes someone else winning. The current crop of 89% penny slots is not conducive to either. Best thing Nevada could do is require every slot in the state to pay out over 95%. Watch the young people flock to the slots and us burned out geezers return or step up our play. :thumbsup:
     
  15. whitefox

    whitefox Tourist

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    Interesting. I've maybe logged five hours LIFETIME playing slots (penny), which I realize is basically the same as zero hours, and never hit any kind of jackpot. Conversely, I have a friend who won a car his first time playing slots and is proving to be a lifetime slots player and (eventually) a slots loser. You couldn't get him to NOT dump cash in those machines.

    I agree with your point, because the lower the payout percentage the less likely to hit any kind of jackpot or big hit in a reasonable amount of time, thus more likelihood someone like me would not see an ample return or lose interest if the game itself isn't that interesting. Admittedly, I get excited when the machine screams "BUFFALO!" just like the next guy.

    As a millennial and a gamer, I prefer games that have some element of skill like poker, VP, or BJ, even if the odds long-term are against me. The idea of spending extended periods of time sitting in a chair pressing a button hoping I press it at the right millisecond to return money I've put in is far from appealing to me.
     
  16. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Do you think doing this would double the amount of coin-in in the state? Otherwise Nevada would lose money by doing that.

    I doubt that setting machines to 95%+ would make people cycle through twice as much through machines. I could be wrong though.
     
  17. whitefox

    whitefox Tourist

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    I would say without a doubt the coin-in would not be doubled and thus the casinos would be losing on current players. I too could be wrong on that point.

    I think the other question here is would higher payback percentages bring in new blood eg. non-slot players, new gamblers, millennials, etc. ? If so, that's basically all profit, so to speak. It's marginal play that casinos are currently missing out on.
     
  18. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Nope. Because you can see the paytable they can do it with impunity. With older slots, they have to actually call in the gaming board to supervise and test the machine. With server based the slot has to be idle for a sleek (four hours?) before they can change it.
     
  19. melbedewy

    melbedewy Low-Roller

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    You guys are thinking like the bean counters. Higher payouts lead to more players, more gross and more profit. We used to go to LV 4 times a year. Now that we can get the same lousy 89% payouts at local casinos we go every 2 years. Over a decade that's 35 trips LV is missing. Gambling money, food, hotel, transportation,shows, gas, rental car and other retail the casinos and state are missing.
    Now multiply us by millions upon millions of people in the same or similar boat.
    We're doing a week in LV/Reno in October and we are seriously considering making it the last trip for a LONG time. Foxwoods and the Mohegan Suck are less than an hour away and offer 95% of the LV experience, lousy slots, good food, free booze, nice hotels, pools, jacuzzi, shows, etc. without the 12 hours round trip on a plane.
     
  20. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Can you back this up with any figures at all?

    So you are going to vegas less because you have a local alternative, not because of the payouts. And you are saying that Vegas should compete for you with higher payouts.

    Multiple problems there.

    1) You are talking about it having to be a law, presumably because its the only way people would know it was done.
    2) There are some people who have NOT cut back on playing and would not play more. With them you are just giving away margin by loosening the slots.
    3) As others said, they would need to actually see DOUBLE the coin in at those slots for the same profit. In fact, more than double, as they have overhead costs, and suddenly they have more overhead to win the same amounts.
    4) If there were enough people like you, and they incentivized you flying out instead of gambling locally, it would hurt your local casinos. They'd see that, and then loosen their slots. So now do you play locally again? It becomes a price war like any other. Good for the consumer but not good for profit. Especially since you made it a law. You made 95% the WORST they can do. So now any intra-Vegas competition need to beat that benchmark to lure away players.
    5) The irony of this plan is that they would have to tighten comps since their theo numbers would decline, and they may actually LOSE some players used to a certain level of comps for their play (even though those players are now getting a better deal).



    It helps to think like the bean counters sometimes. It keeps you thinking about what is possible/likely behaviour, instead of indulging fantasies that would make the town better for you, but NOT improve the bottom line.
     
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