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Casino looking at time on machine instead of coin in?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by BayouBengal, Mar 22, 2016.

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  1. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    I talked with a host about getting a room and the expected play level accordingly. This is what I said "I am primarily video poker and craps player. What level of coin-in/action are you looking for?"

    The response "We do not look at coin in we like to see at least 4 hours play each day and table play same with 25.00 avg bet."

    I could easily play 4 hours of video poker a day and at the quarter level my theo would be pretty low. Ever heard of a casino basing machine play on time?
     
  2. SnakeDoctor

    SnakeDoctor Tourist

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    That is kind of weird. Are they implying that each deal on the VP machine would be $25? That seems more than needed for a room comp. Or perhaps they just replied generically, implying that your slot/vp should be comparable to a 4 hr/day @$25/bet.
     
  3. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    OK, long story short. About two years ago I cold contacted a host at Suncoast. I told him he could expect 10k per day in VP play. He said great and gave us a suite and four nights comped. We averaged $12-13k per day on coin in and each day close to 8-10 hrs of bartop play per day. When it came time to check out, they would only comp ~$100 of the $250 restaurant charges we put on the room.

    When I escalated my complaint to the head host, he said coin-in has nothing to do with comps. Go figure, because I sure don't get it.
     
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  4. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds High-Roller

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    From what I've heard back in the day, and perhaps some smaller casinos still do this, the time spent on the machine was part of figuring comps because the tracking systems weren't as sophisticated. It was more like how they currently track table games. But now they can track your coin-in very accurately and they know the exact theoretical loss for the machines you are playing.

    I'm guessing at Suncoast perhaps the host was either not up to speed on the formula, or they use a different way for determining comps, but I'm guessing what he was really saying is that your theo is the most important part on determining comps. Your coin-in is part of that formula to determine your theo, so it's important, but it's just a piece of the puzzle.

    So say you traveled with a friend and they did $10k coin-in on penny slots with an 85% return, and you did $10k coin-in on 9/6 JOB and other full pay video poker with a 99%+ return. In this situation your friends theo is much higher and they would get probably get a lot more in comps than you receive, even though your coin-in was exactly the same.
     
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  5. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    The true story is...they basically will say one or the other...whatever to make rationale to get out of comps.
    Here's a scenario..
    Recently at Rio, wife and I stayed 4 nights...one night we played for 4 hours, with $10k coin-in on video poker (1000 TC; all in one-sitting at the same $1 machine)
    We go to talk to a host, and he said "you only played 4 hours and you WON, so I can't comp you any more than you've already got (the free rooms)"
    So even if you play X amount of hours, or X amount of coin-in...whatever fits the host's prerogative, is why you're not getting something comped (you either didn't play long enough, or didn't put enough coin-in)
    The TRUTH is they only care about theo, plain and simple...unless of course, your theo is $300 and your ACTUAL win is more (Then don't expect them to be too comp lenient)...but on the flip side, if your theo is $300 and your ACTUAL loss is more, then you can expect to get comps based off of the loss.
    The trick is, to give them decent theo, with having your ACTUAL within 10% of your theo (either way).
     
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  6. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Jeez Tim, 135 days on that countdown timer must be killing you!
     
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  7. Rush

    Rush High-Roller

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    If you recall, Boyd USED to rate you on coin OUT. Maybe that was what was going on?
     
  8. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    They meant $25/hand on the tables for 4 hours. They said they don't have a coin in requirement for machines, just 4 hours of play. And I replied that 4 hours of video poker wouldn't be a problem.

    If I were playing $5 video poker I wouldn't be staying at this particular property.
     
  9. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    I agree with Tim. They'll say whatever they think will get you to play more. Nobody's going to comp a suite to an old lady who plays pennies for 6 hours a day.
     
  10. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    I do not believe Boyd ever rated on coin out, but I know for sure Stations did at one time.
     
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  11. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Why do you say that?
     
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  12. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Take that with a grain of salt...trust me, if you don't play enough for their liking, they'll state you didn't put in enough coin-in (as Bardolator agree'd with me)
    I've often though of playing $5 vp ($25 a whack) and playing SO SUPER SLOW that the card-reader time-out ALMOST happens (I think it's set for probably 5 minutes of inactivity), then playing the next hand..sure I could put $10k coin-in, in 4 hours, playing $25 a whack..LOL (just to almost make fun of the casinos "system")
    As a side story..I actually DID do this once...a LOT of casinos still use the Bally 2-line displays (Boyd uses this system still at MSS, and Sam's Town)...I actually play so fast (if I want to go fast) that the system couldn't keep up with me. I put in $10k coin-in playing single line 25c video poker..and then when I went t go check my comps, it was SUBSTANTIALLY lower than expected..so I talked to my host and she looked it up, and apparently it only "counted" about 3 of every 10 hands I played, haha. She actually went over to the machine with me to watch me play and verify that it WAS the systems fault (she was a good host) and her exact words to me "Play slower! The system can't keep up!" LOL!
     
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  13. spdandpwr

    spdandpwr Low-Roller

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    This thread is the exact reason I try not to chase comps. Too much gray area and for people playing $10k coin-in to get nothing back in comps but free rooms...well I know I'd be upset.
     
  14. spdandpwr

    spdandpwr Low-Roller

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    Haha, this was me last weekend at Mohegan. I get a rush trying to play fast. I am pretty sure I can knockout 30 hands in a minute. I'll try to time her next time.
     
  15. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    The timeout is another grey area. Is it something like the Bond bar drink tickets where it's every 20 to 30 seconds versus 5 minutes or so where your card has to be reinserted ?
     
  16. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Playing 1800 hands an hour, at 99%+ correct is insanely crazy hard...
     
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  17. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Well duh, a very long time for you to not be in Vegas.
     
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  18. spdandpwr

    spdandpwr Low-Roller

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    I never said I could sustain that rate of speed...but maybe $2000 in cocaine might help. You looking for company on your next vegas trip, LOL :)
     
  19. smerrian

    smerrian Low-Roller

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    In Sept '15 I was offered 2 nights comped with free play by Gold Coast (Boyd). The mailer said it was based on 4 hours of play per day. That was the only catch. You had to go to the Emerald Host Room to have a host look up your time played before they would release the free play to your card. Denomination didn't count. I wanted to see that it was legit, so I went to the casino with a book I was reading. Every page or two I would play 1 hand of vp. After 4 hours of reading my book with my card in the slot I got my free play and resumed my normal play level.
     
  20. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    haha...Hot August Nights is in Reno...vegas doesn't offer enough of an edge to a vp player.
     
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