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Table Games Casino Chips and W-9's

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Naturaleight, Feb 21, 2015.

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  1. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    Has anyone had to fill out a W-9 before when cashing out chips at the cage? The amount I cashed out was $9125, well below the CTR threshold. I have made countless cashouts for large amounts at various casinos, but last night I was asked to fill out a W-9. They did not furnish me a copy of the document, and kept it for their records. They took a copy of my license, SSN, address, and players card. Funny how they don't require anything when you drop 10k+ at the tables, but when you want to cash out they bring out all the stops. (except for asking for your social).

    I was so tired and just wanted to leave and get my money, that I didn't inquire as to why they wanted all that information. Looking back I probably should have protested, but was too tired and had terrible neck pain that I just needed bed.

    I suspected the casino thought they may need to do a CTR, but weren't sure, so they wanted to have all the necessary information should they have to do it. But my license and address they already had anyways on my players card so I'm a little baffled. Anyway, has anyone had similar experience?
     
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Must have been a small time operation. The big casinos do it all behind the scenes.

    But the law for a CTR is 10k combined so they probably were concerned that you would cash out more later to go over the threshold.
     
  3. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Its called a Multiple Transactions Log (MTL) that casinos maintain to keep track of people who might go over the 10k threshold in 24 hrs. Its an internal log but they are supposed to use their best efforts to record the same identifying info they'd use on a CTR. Its typically triggered between $2500-$3000 (FinCEN best practices state it should be recorded at $3000).

    I agree its annoying. Even if I don't see it happening, I just don't like the thought of my details being linked to a bunch of casino transactions when they are perfectly honest and unremarkable.
     
  4. Piggylane

    Piggylane Well-Known Member

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    I've had to several times but never for less than $7500. Last trip I cashed in about $6K at Aria and no one blinked. At Sunset Station $8.5K and I had to fill out the form.
     
  5. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    They usually ask for a players card and all that stuff is on the card already.
     
  6. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Yeah, I've never had to actually fill out any form myself regardless of the amount. But now they don't even need to use a players card necessarily, if they can identify you from a surveillance picture that is enough and apparently becoming common. In fact, they don't need to actually even identify you until you reach the threshold, but before that they still need a way to uniquely keep track of you for the log.

    FinCEN has a whole section of their site dedicated to casino compliance issues: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/casinos/

    Here is some info from one of the FAQs:

    Almost all casinos maintain multiple transaction logs ("MTLs") pursuant to state, tribal or local laws, or as unique business records. Casinos or card clubs record on these logs only currency transactions above a given threshold, usually $2,500 - $3,000. Also, some casinos have enhanced the existing MTL compliance procedure to require a surveillance photograph of each "unknown" customer to assist in identifying customers for purposes of aggregating transactions for currency transaction reporting as well as potential suspicious transaction reporting. 50See 31 C.F.R. ยง 103.64(a)(2)(i).

    And here is some IRS text regarding casinos and MTLs: http://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-009.html
     
  7. wormhole

    wormhole Low-Roller

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    Is the 24 hour period for CTRs a rolling window or is it a calendar day?
     
  8. ruralhipster

    ruralhipster Low-Roller

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    I wonder if this has to do with tighter monitoring on money laundering? I had to provide ID to cash out a TITO that was over a grand on my last visit.
     
  9. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    What a hassle. Would you have been able to stick it in a redemption machine? I stuck mine ($1100) in the machine and it paid me.
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  10. Brewfangrb

    Brewfangrb Low-Roller

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    Agreed, but blame criminals and the federal government. And really, just blame criminals. Money is what makes crime work. For small-time losers or local drug dealers, they don't money laundering. But for larger scale operations, because cash is dying, if they make big money, they got to do something with it. Tracking the money is best way for law enforcement to catch them. I agree it's a major hassle for those affected (not me, since I don't deal in those amounts, haha), and I think the big casinos have sophisticated ways to comply while minimizing the hassle. I can't blame the smaller casinos, though, for the hassle because the penalties for failing to comply are very punitive (and worse, the requirements for compliance are gauzy, at best. I don't envy casinos--or any cash operation--trying to comply).
     
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I'm not normally paranoid about this kind of stuff, but I swear every single time I went to the cage at Caesars this last trip, the first thing the cashiers did after I walked up was look at their screen, before they even counted chips or looked at TITOs.

    It made me wonder if maybe they're somehow doing facial recognition on everyone.
     
  12. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    The Casino's perform them per "gaming day." depending on the casino, some restarts at either 6am or 8am. So for example you buy in for $6,000 at 2am, then at 11am you buy in for another $6,000, no CTR would be filed.
     
  13. wormhole

    wormhole Low-Roller

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    Thanks. Not that I can afford the big buy ins, but was wondering in case of the rare hot streak that might run things up. My biggest win ever was $9600 (table progressive) and that generated a W-2g.
     
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