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Table Games card counting

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jjc312, Aug 22, 2013.

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  1. jjc312

    jjc312 Tourist

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    On a recent trip at NYNY, a friend of mine was playing $25 DD blackjack. Bets were varying from $25-$150 depending on he count. After coloring up and leaving a couple of suits found him minutes later walking around and told him if he wanted to play again here and "varied" his bet, he would be flat betted. I told him it was probably just a "verbal warning" but he thinks that he was entered into their (MGM properties not just NYNY) system as a counter. He now will not play blackjack at any MGM properties.

    Is he over reacting or do they keep tabs on issues like this?

    BTW, this was after a couple days of winning maybe $1200-$1800 in about 5 sessions.
     
  2. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Low-Roller

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    If he was playing "rated" he is probably screwed. No skilled counter should ever play DD rated in Las Vegas.

    If he was playing unrated, its not a big deal. Back offs happen. I would avoid NY NY for a month or so. Upon returning, play a different shift.

    Again- NEVER PLAY DD RATED IN LAS VEGAS if you are a skilled counter. If you are an unskilled counter, you can play rated all you want. Hell, they will even give you free stuff.
     
  3. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    Next thing you know, you won't be able to masturbate on an airplane...
     
  4. snoopydogj

    snoopydogj Low-Roller

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    "Thanks a lot Bin Laden"
     
  5. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    I am actually shocked they gave a damn at that level of betting.
     
  6. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Because they're more scared of him testing it out at low levels and then bringing a team to hit them for a million.
     
  7. Smo

    Smo Mr. Las Vegas

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    As mentioned, if your gonna count cards and try to make some decent money, you never give them your players card or even your real name for that matter. I have a Vegas name I use whilst at the tables. :wink2:
     
  8. zamboni

    zamboni VIP Whale

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    Ron Mexico?
     
  9. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    :haha::haha::haha::haha:
     
  10. Gino

    Gino "The King of Inappropriate."

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    Carlos? Carlos Dangerous?
     
  11. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I usually go with:

    [YOUTUBE]wdcSxM7XNG4[/YOUTUBE]
     
  12. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Tell your friend to come to southern california. One of my local casinos has a whole pit of $25 min DD BJ...at least 10 tables.
     
  13. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Interesting. His spread-level seems very non-threatening to me... when I typically count, my spread is $10 to $50, so the ratio is close to the same... and I never seem to draw much heat at all...just some periodic 'close-scrutiny' of my play for a few hands (and that's the perfect time to stand on a 16 vs a dealer 10, or to double an A-2 against a dealer 2... or to press your bet on a neutral count!).

    Now, if he was only betting either $25 or $150, count-dependent, I could see how that would result in being called on it.

    If his betting ranged within that spread...say, $25 on a negative/neutral count, $40 on a +1, $60 on a +2, $80 on a +3, $100 on a +4 and $150 for +5 or better, I wouldn't think that would draw much heat, as the +4/5 so rarely occurs in 2-deck.

    I would suggest to him that he should try this more-gradual spread next time. If they 'flat-bet' him, then he'll know, but even so, he won't be any worse-off than deciding to never play again anyway!

    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  14. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Agree with the above posts about NEVER giving your name while counting.:peace:
     
    Annual Summer Bliss in the Land of Milk and Honey!!!
  15. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    I've been counting for about 8 years and play rated all the time. Having or not having a card isn't a trigger for them watching your game (it's probably a tad MORE suspicious to not give them a card). I'd have lost out on TONS of free rooms and free food if I didn't get rated. Sure, I've been backed off a few times (betting at almost the exact same level as the OP), and once at a major chain which required getting a fake ID so I could get a new players card and get comps under a new name. (Hint, you can get a new 'authorized user' on an existing credit card account without any effort and check-in and pay with your 'new' name.)

    I've never had any problem across casinos owned by different people using a player card in a name that was backed off somewhere else.

    Yes, if you get backed off you'll lose your blackjack privileges with that name, but if you can use the comps I think it's silly not to get rated. Getting the free stuff is part of your EV; you want to cash in on it. The list price of the comps I've received is nearly as large as the money won while counting.

    For me, the key to not getting backed off is keeping an open eye to what's going on in the pit and most importantly keeping the sessions short: no more than 45 minutes to an hour. I can't confirm this, but some play at other games or slots is probably good as well. (If they log in your card and see you ONLY play blackjack, that might be a trigger for them to start watching.)
     
  16. flamingogo

    flamingogo Tourist

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    I only play shoe games (I know, not as good as DD but I like that it's not watched as closely) and spread from 10 to 2 hands of 90-100. I only play rated at a couple of places, because I feel that my betting level is too low for them to really look twice. I'll also usually leave after showing my big bet (unless I lose heavily, which I feel buys me some time). At one of the fancier places, I've parked myself at a table for like 5 hours and played because I'd like to think that I'm absolutely no threat to their bottom line, when the guy at the next table is betting $5k a hand..

    That being said, I do feel paranoid sometimes at some of the smaller places (not tiny, like El Cortez). Like every time the phone rings, I'm sure it's about me. Do you think any places would watch my play at 6-deck shoes and my spread?
     
  17. jackincols

    jackincols Guest

    Ditto. That sounds like something that would be more apt to happen at the old Barbary Coast. Talk about a paranoid bunch of pit critters.
     
  18. Ronoh

    Ronoh Tourist

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    As a former pit critter at the old Barbary I can vouch for this :evillaugh
     
  19. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    Funny this exact scenario happened to me about 2.5 years ago at NYNY except I was using a much more aggressive bet spread. I was flat bet on the spot. After another incident at Bellagio, I have been flat bet at all MGM properties and essentially cannot play rated BJ at any of them any longer. They are very sweaty at NYNY, especially on that DD game you described. However if it hadn't been for that second incident at Bellagio nobody seemed to pay attention to the notes that NYNY put in.

    If I was your friend I wouldn't worry about it too much. IMHO He didn't use an aggressive enough spread for them to really care and go out of their way to alert different properties.
     
  20. jackincols

    jackincols Guest

    In all of my trips to Vegas, Barbary Coast was the only place I experienced any kind of heat playing 21 and the table was a min. $10 table.
     
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