1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Can you explain this playing on the last day issue with the rating?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by LV_Bound, Jun 30, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,907
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    I have seen questions and responses about playing on the last day skewing the rating.
    We try to catch one of the first flights out of Vegas at the end of the trip which leaves only an hour or two to hit the machines.

    Are you saying I shouldn't be doing this?

    Don't they just look at the coin-in?

    How much can playing an hour or two one day skew the rating?
     
  2. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    This is a CET issue, not an issue with MGM properties. Its silly but apparently if you use your card for anything on any day it will "trigger" a play day which will impact your ADT.....or technically as CaptainJack has pointed out your MDV (marketing daily value).

    What's never been clear is if you zero out your folio the night before you checkout if that will still prevent them from triggering a day the morning you do checkout since you don't need to swipe your card for anything, but technically they know you're still there. It may or may not work.

    MGM uses a much more sensible system of averaging your ADT over the total number of nights you stayed.
     
  3. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,907
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    So basically instead of simply looking at the total "coin-in" they look at per day "coin-in"???

    If so then lets say a person is there for 4 days, only gambles 2 days and accumulates $10K coin-in. Are they viewing this as $5K coin-in average?


    Then person #2 gambles everyday and accumulates $16K coin-in which comes out to $4K average.

    I agree that the daily average is different but anyone can see person #2 is contributing more to the casinos bottom line so not sure why they would want to penalize the person for squeezing more gambling in at the end of their trip.
     
  4. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,749
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    Personally I don't care and if I am going to play the next day I will use my card.

    First, you don't really know just how much play you are going to have. With a little bit of luck here and there you could end up cycling a lot of money through in a short bit of time.

    But more importantly: this whole thing with ADT is something most people don't fully understand and most think its some super sensitive number where one small mistake could send their entire comp world crashing down.

    As far as gambling and if you should use your card, here are three simple pieces of advice:

    1) If you currently don't receive any offers for free nights then you are an idiot for worrying about your ADT. Your play is not enough, you are "under their radar" and you need to gamble more and trying to jimmy or nickle and dime "the system" isn't going to start getting you free rooms.

    2) If you do get offers for free nights now then you will continue to get offers for free nights unless you pretty much totally short play or screw the casino over. And short play or screw the casino doesn't mean you normally show up with a $5000 budget but this time your budget is only $3000... instead talking like you give them nearly zero play or maybe just run a hundred bucks through one night of your trip.

    3) The numbers aren't super sensitive, like they don't work like "Oh if your ADT was only just a dollar and thirty eight cents higher you would have gotten that suite! Oh too bad for you!"
    No, your "ADT" is an averaged number made up of multiple averaged numbers and a few pennies of ADT here or there isn't going to bump you up in room quality levels. If you are getting comp room offers now and you want to go up to comp suite offers you need to gamble more, not try to work the system.
     
  5. domeboy

    domeboy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,102
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    Wow....This might be the most common sense approach I have ever read about CET comps. Kudos.
     
  6. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,713
    Location:
    Chicago South Suburbs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    In Vegas, it would take a lot for a low play or short play day to screw you over. I think that if they can average your play between casinos, they can look at a whole trip if they want to.

    A lot of the advice about no play days actually applies to local casino play, especially if you participate in promos without playing. Locals can base offers for your whole history or they can base it on just the past month. TR is more complex than people think. My strategy is to be consistent in how I play with them. I'm done trying to eek out more from them.
     
  7. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,132
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    Most of those responses explain it, but...

    The casinos are a business. They "entice" players to comp play via offers. To decide if you should get a suite, food, tickets etc or just a cheap room, they need to understand how much you are worth to them.

    The primary tool they use for this is to examine you AVERAGE play. If you play for three days and have $3,000 coin in for example, they expect you will do that next time you visit. But, if you add a forth day with $40 coin in... well, do the math. That is all the computer does.
     
  8. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    4,907
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    Thanks for all the feedback.
    I will continue to use my card on the last day as it doesn't seem to matter and hasn't affected my free limo ride from the airport, free rooms and FP. I think having a host may help because they have some sort of common sense to look at the overall stay as opposed to just the average.
     
  9. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,072
    Location:
    Arizona
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    No they are viewing this as $2500 daily coin-in
     
  10. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    Yeah I've been reading this book Addiction by Design and it specifically talks a lot about CET's system since it is considered to be by far the most elaborate and detailed system of measuring player value. It barely talks about ADT or even coin-in for that matter. So many of their primary metrics are things like frequency of visits, speed of play, and even whether you play max-coin or not regardless of the denomination. These are all behavioral clues they get and they have algorithms to model your value based on these.

    For example they know someone who plays max-coins on slots is very likely to play max-coins on any slots even when they move up denomination. Whereas a person who doesn't play max-coin is more disciplined when deciding how much they will bet, even if it still amounts to a higher amount than the max-coin guy this will lower his value. Someone who simply hits the button faster is considered more of a valuable gambler than someone who hits it slowly, again independent of the total coin-in.

    They keep real-time tracking of each gamblers "pain threshold", the amount of money they calculate each individual can lose before they become uncomfortable. When they hit that threshold the system is designed to automatically trigger some immediate comps to them, often in the form of someone actually walking up to them and comping them a dinner or something.

    These things are just a couple of examples. With the detailed analysis they do I'm starting to have a hard time believing a simple quirk in their ADT calc is going to help or hurt or you.
     
  11. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,407
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Sounds interesting....is that a recent book, i.e. since the full TR rollout?
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    It's a recent book but the author's study was done over several years. I've been jumping around in it and the part I read about the CET system looks like it was from data and interviews done in 2005-2006 back when it was still Harrahs. Though like I said, I've just jumped around in the book so I don't know how much further along it goes examining player tracking systems.

    It really is a good book and seriously insightful reading about a lot of the things we talk about here. If I didn't have the patience of a fruitfly I'm sure I would have read it straight through by now.

    Here's the link on Amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/Addiction-Design-Machine-Gambling-Vegas/dp/0691127557
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.