1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Can you count and get comps at the same time?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Dutchman, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Is it at all possible to be both a card and comp counter? I'm torn between the two and from what I've read card counters never want to be rated. As I don't get to true casino's very much I like the idea of going to Vegas regularly, getting treated like a VIP and getting free vacations. But I also want to actually win money instead of just slowing down how much I'm losing.
     
  2. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    4,570
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    001
    Want to win money?
    gamble at home, against yourself, lol.
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  3. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    11,117
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    Color me up - as confused. Card counter I get. What is a comp counter?
     
  4. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Someone who gets rated and uses tactics to get more comps without risking/losing as much money as you'd normally have to. Read "Comp City" by Max Rubin
     
  5. sabre

    sabre Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I'm of the opinion that recreational card counters should absolutely be playing rated. It doesn't take much to get free rooms and some match play. These items can add to your hourly big time.

    I would stick to shoe games. Avoid double deck and single deck (el Cortez). Keep your spread reasonable. (1-16) Spread your play around. Moving on at the end of a shoe where you show your big bets is a good idea, but isn't always necessary.

    I can't stress enough that most places are watching their double deck games closely. You can get away with a lot at shoe games.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    What you are describing is commonly referred to as a "comp hustler."
     
  7. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Gotcha, makes sense
     
  8. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Wow haven't heard that one yet. Thanks. That's disappointing to hear but incredibly vital to know.
     
  9. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,674
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    I think it also depends on how good a card counter you are. Many people try to "count" cards but aren't really good at it so those people should give them their player's card.

    Of course if you win most of the time you play due to counting cards then you may not want to be rated (or to give them your name) because you don't want it in their system.

    It is difficult, as long as you keep losing they don't care if you count cards but the minute you start to win then they act like you're robbing their bank.
     
  10. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    592
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    103
    People don't give a players card when counting because they don't want to get tracked.

    It's hard to pull off a successful solo card counting session and not get caught. You go to a high end casino or else your buy in will get a lot of attention. You can't just casually walk up to Harrahs $10 table and buy in for $1000 and not draw attention. Especially if you start betting $10 with a big buy in.
     
  11. bjpcyclone

    bjpcyclone High-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    871
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Since gamblind is an -EV game except in rare circumstances over long periods of time, you are going to be hard pressed get treated like a VIP AND win money over the run.
     
  12. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    The easy answer is - "yes", you can do both... I use my player's cards and I also continue to "notice the cards" as they are removed from the deck...oh, and I play almost exclusively two-deck tables.
    That said, I have a very low base-bet and a minuscule spread: $10, spreading to no more than $40 (with a very-rare $50 bet now & then).
    Perhaps I'm one of those "not very good at it" players, referred to by makikiboy, and the casinos don't care. I'm perfectly fine with that perception - so long as I continue to win most sessions!

    I no longer play blackjack on the strip, as they've made it clear that they do not want my patronage. They only want $10 players who either don't know or don't care about being swindled with "6:5" games.

    Downtown & off-strip continue to make me feel welcomed - both with their table limits/rules, as well as with lower-end comps and offers.
    About the only time I don't give them my player's card is on my departure day, as I know that my 'daily average' would be adversely impacted.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  13. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    So do you agree with Sabre that casino's watch their DD games closely for advantage players?
     
  14. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,192
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I think you may be buying into some ideas that you likely shouldn't, and this is an area you should go in with your eyes wide open.

    "Comp counter" is a pretty silly concept. Yes, there are little tips and things you can use to maximize what you get back for what you play. But it should always start with what and how much you want to play, and then focus on how to get the best deal for that play. If you decide how much to risk or how many hours to play based on getting comps, you might feel like a big shot but you are costing yourself money.

    Card counting has a massive variation when it comes to both skill and intent. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to count and play for comps, too. But if you are doing this, you have to be able to count and have fun, and the goal is still recreation, not profit. If you are really good you may just break even on the experience. And if you have a long sustained run of breaking even or better, casinos may cut back your comps.

    The counters who try not to be known are the professionals doing it (and other techniques) for profit. If you want to be one of these, you will need a deep bankroll, and face the risk of being barred from casinos. And you'll have to be really good at counting, and hiding that you are doing so.
     
  15. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    592
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    103
    I think he was referring to the poor rules at the $10 level. On strip you won't find much 3:2 blackjack at that level unless its a mid week morning. If you want decent rules for low limits, off strip and downtown is where you should play. But those places will also notice someone with out a card buying in for a large sum.
     
  16. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Yes since posting that I've been informed "Comp Hustler" is the more common term. And I basically just want to maximize comps while out there. I'd like to start going to Vegas as a regular thing but I need to save money however I can. So getting stuff comped and getting future deals on rooms/etc makes a big difference to someone like me.
     
  17. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,192
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    For me, too.

    I am just saying decide how you like to play and how much you can afford to risk first.

    Then within those parameters, try to maximize the comps you get out of it.
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,664
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Yep... and you can forget any $10 DD 3:2 games on the strip... those disappeared in the early 2000s... although, I think somebody posted that Circus still has them...and the Strat. Anything else is either 6-8 deck shoes, 6:5 or $25 & up... and even the $25+ 3:2 DD tables are a rare thing on the strip these days.

    (as for pit-scrutiny at downtown/off-strip 2-deck tables? Sure, it happens, but not so much that it's a problem for me...but again...I bet small & spread small... and I also make a deflection move or two when the pit is spending too much time watching my play.)
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  19. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Yeah I'm aiming for green chip play, once my bankroll is big enough
     
  20. Dutchman

    Dutchman Tourist

    Joined:
    May 29, 2016
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    What are some "deflection moves"?