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Calculating MY personal H/A......oh my!

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by VegasChic-, Jan 21, 2015.

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  1. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    So, I know penny slots are the worst odds in the house. My understanding is that the H/A on the penny slots on the strip are around 10-11% or so.... and of course, that's based on lifetime of the machines etc....I get that.

    V/P is good enough to show the slot credit in and slot credit out on their win loss statements. Correct me if I'm wrong, but do I divide the coin out by the coin in to get my personal experience? If so.......mine was almost 23%! ACK!!! (77.******)

    Has anyone else ever calculated their numbers? 10-11% I could live with, but 23%?

    Are my penny slotting days over? Move to dollar and up?

    Damn Buffalo!
     
  2. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I would assume the house edge on the penny slots on the strip are closer to 12% now. For the last 12 months at major strip casinos it was 11.88%. Also I would assume the newer games are a little higher house edge. And V/P is sorta known to be on the lower end of slot paybacks.

    That being said...it sounds like you did run bad at V/P. As for actual results, it also depends on the games/denominations/number of spins you were typically playing. If you played less than 10,000 spins, then variance is still a huge factor, and bad runs could definitely be in the 70s for pennies. :(

    I was quite disappointed in my numbers in 2013 myself. 2014 was better, but I was also playing better games. But I have also gone over 2 years (and likely over 80k hands...avg is 40k) without a Royal Flush as well (I play 95% VP now). :vomit:
     
  3. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I'm likely using the wrong terminology, maybe not even correct calculations to show it, but really what bummed me out wasn't that I lost, it was how quickly it played through. It's entertainment, but no play through = no entertainment!

    I'm usually playing with a bankroll that is around 1000 times my average bet, maybe a bit more. You'd figure somewhere in there you could hit something to keep you going! Have to go look at those risk of ruin charts again, lol!
     
  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    coin-out / coin-in is the correct calculation for the actual return.

    e.g. $12,245 coin-out / $15,628 coin-in = 78.35% actual return. And the house's actual take is 100% - % actual return.

    And where are you looking at these risk of ruin charts?
     
  5. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    If you want to figure your % loss, it's

    Amount Lost divided by Coin In.

    23% isn't out of range. I think when I play slots, if I don't have a few significant wins, my loss % is usually about 20%-ish.

    You have to remember that the HA may be 10%, but that includes the top jackpot getting hit somewhere along the way.

    Tring could probably calc an example of a high (but non-progressive) jackpot machine and what the HA is if you take out that single big payout.

    Also, shortly after V/P went to awarding Status Points based on theo, I did a measured session on a five-cent Wolf Run machine and the theo was 12.5%, so I'd guess pennies are at least that, if not 15%.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
  6. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Yes, this is very true. So, those machines with high payouts will GENERALLY hit you well more than 10%. The person that hits the big payout turns the house advantage for that player on it's head. Or said another way... if someone put in $1,000 and won $50,000 - what is the house advantage on that?
     
  7. Slotchick

    Slotchick High-Roller

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    That made me chuckle VegasChic, you sound like me....Blame it on the BUFFALO!!
     
  8. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I can't quickly find it, but I'll keep looking. I had read something that had a calculator similar to the risk of ruin calculator for blackjack on wizard of odds, but I'm sure there was a slot one. It basically said that at "x" numbers of slot spins per hour, at "y" denomination/bet size with a "z" H/A = about how much time you can expect to play. It was answering how much bankroll you needed to play a slot session. Anyone else see it? I'll link it here if I can find it again!

    Well, it's somewhat reassuring to see I'm not the only one with those numbers then. I figured I was just having REALLY bad luck. Haha.

    Still going to try $1's I think thought-
     
  9. pphold

    pphold pp Park Place Degenerate

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    I started with $1 at $20 a spin but Sindustries and I end up with $5 and $25 slots at $25 to $50 a pull....


    I don't think i can stand to spin a penny slot at $3 a pull.
     
  10. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    For typical 3 reel slots, jackpot payouts are usually only about 2% of the return ala a Royal Flush in VP, but lumped with the 2nd, 3rd, 4th highest payouts, they likely easy cover 10%, and when you don't hit any of those, then yeah, results aren't going to be fun. Unfortunately to do real math on it, you really need to have the PAR sheets of the game. I would LOVE to see one of "Buffalooooooooooooooo".

    And yeah, I would assume many of the pennies at V/P are pretty close to 15%, which is the max house edge that many IGT penny slot games offer. "Wolf Run", however...it's max house edge, you played for yourself, 12.5%. :( The minimum house edge is 2% (also common for IGT games). I can only find it in passing when googling, but max house edge for the original "Buffalo" may be 12%. But both "Buffalo" and "Wolf Run" are swingy enough to run 10% below expectation for a significant amount of play, I would guess.

    Wolf Run media sheet
    http://media.igt.com/marketing/PromotionalLiterature/GamePromoLit_EDF3-1C0E9.pdf


    Here is one I found on this webpage but i dunno how good of an estimate it is. It's probably okay, but it also depends on the individual game swings. They say to budget ~$600 an hour for $3/spin...

    http://casinoobserver.com/slot-machine-strategies.htm
     
  11. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    Many of the penny slots seem to be $2.00-2.50 per spin max bet now, so I've been seeking out the ones that allow higher - $3-10.00 per spin. But with the holds - I know I'd be better off changing off the penny slots. But I'd have to go with the reel style rather than video, because I can't imagine $25 per spin and up, an entire three days in Vegas, lol!

    I will try switching to higher denomination reel slots next trip and report back any noticed difference in play value time (and wins)~

    LOL, pphold, you already worked your way up to $50 a spin - you KNOW anything less now will be boring! I've avoided the denomination increase for a long time, despite the h/a, because of this! Glad to see you got some hits though!
     
  12. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I finally found the page.....not a calculator like the blackjack, but simply a table for calculating bankroll for a 3 hour session. At the very least I think it does illustrate pretty well the effect the holds at the different denominations.

    http://www.readybetgo.com/casino-gambling/strategy/bet-size-bankroll--1337.html

    I would LOVE too if you were to figure out the numbers on Buffalo! Sometimes that game just seems so easy and is winning like crazy.....and other times can sit FOREVER before a decent hit. That's gambling I guess!
     
  13. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    This makes the most amount of sense for % of loss - I have had a very poor win percentage then! Last three trips = Amount lost = $4500 Approx. $18000 coin - in. So that number equals 25%. Is this about normal?

    With a 0 - 40 record in Las Vegas, maybe I should stick with tiddlywinks???
     
  14. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    Are you playing proper strategy!?!? Always holding the dealt Double Diamond!?!? ;p
     
  15. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    Darn it beeejay, I knew I was playing wrong!!!! Thanks for setting me straight, that's exactly why I rely on the board! Owe you a Raspberry lemondrop pink girly drink for that one, lol!!!
     
  16. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    Strategy = sounds great for V/P. I'm now an almost full time penny slotter now!! No more stinkin' Pai Gow! No more stinkin' Craps! No more stinkin' Roulette! No more stinkin' Blackjack.

    I'm sticking to the highest losing percentage games now. I'm trying to make my win percentage equal to my Blood Alcohol Level (about 2.2%). But on the bright side, I get some great comps - :woohoo:
     
  17. pphold

    pphold pp Park Place Degenerate

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    You will have to blame pleepleus and sindustry for the $20 to $50 a spin. Sindustry started this with the $100 slot I just wanted a big win and the only way was to play $25 slots. Sindustry change it from $5 to $25 we won on the second spin. Guess we should have change it to $50 for $100 a spin. LOL.

    I have my W2-G's so i'm happy now. Bad part is i put back $1500 really quick at $20 to $50 a spin.


    OK back to Baccarat. Well have to see what Super Bowl weekend holds for us.

    Oh The Tropicana has Deconstructed Banana cream pie that is really good. You need to add that to your list to try.


    I did look at my Win loss at V/P and i was only there for quick two hours and had low 5 figure coin in. and out and only won less than $1k? I do like that they track you coin in and out. One of the very few places I show a win last year. I'll take it. Have fun at Palazzo in March.
     
  18. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    Hey! Our numbers are very similar, that must be the normal for us non-winners I guess, lol! Tiddlywinks is starting to sound pretty good right now!
     
  19. 34cents

    34cents Low-Roller

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    This the site you were thinking of http://www.bjstrat.net/ror.html
     
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