Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by westie, Feb 26, 2013.
From the column:
It wouldn't be a real Bob Dancer column without him somehow finding a way to brag about his bankroll. He has some good VP info but he's still a big d0uche.
In his last column (about the mayor losing a billion on VP), he said that he is no longer welcome to play in MGM Grand. What's the story here? Can you be barred for VP play or did something else happen for them to boot him?
He took advantage of some very good offers they were giving him. They were giving him offers as if he was down large sums of money when he was really up. This happened a long time ago(early 90s I think).
Basically he got thrown out for being an advantage player. He wasn't profitable to them, so they didn't want his play.
Can you actually get 86'd for VP play, or do they just cut off comp card play/offers, making it unprofitable to play? Not sure they have any 100%+ games at any level, but with promotions & comps, he may have found profitable situations.
I remember a local who played heavy and posted here stated he was shut off from comp coupon offers for a while from Mandalay Bay, either before or after he called the Gaming commission for some free play issue.
CET has 9/6 JOB at several casinos across America including $5 versions in Vegas. Haven't seen full pay DDB at CET. 9/6 JOB is offered at NYNY, but you cannot earn MILFe points on the machine.
In terms of the linked article, savvy gamblers should learn the difference between EV, Theo and Actual values.
EV - Expected odds based on current odds and wager.
Theoretical loss rate - Theoretical loss calculation made by the casino based on wager, game and sometimes skill level. Note what casino credits for your play does not neccessarily equal your EV - the shortfall is usually in the casino's favor - (i.e. casino gives you comp credit based on 1% when your true EV = 1.5% based on your specific wagers and or skillset, when appicable)
Actual loss rate - Actual results - short term action deviates from EV, sometimes in a big way. However, as you continue to amass play/hands, your actual will trend toward EV for your particular wager and game played, with skill level factored in certain games (BJ, VP) and wager type in others (craps - odds bets vs. hardways, blackjack or Pai Gow- bonus side bet vs. standard bet, etc.)
Casinos are private businesses, they can refuse your business for nearly any reason, real or imaginary.
I would word it as "the casinos are on private property, they can refuse your business for nearly any reason" because some of them are public companies so it might lend to some confusion of more questions when there needn't be
I understand that fact, though I do not think they can refuse business on the basis of race or other traits protected under Federal law.
My question is was he really 86'd or banned from playing VP (security would kick him out or call the cops to arrest for trespassing if found playing), or did MGM simply cancel his MILFe comp and promotional (prizes, tournaments, etc.) earning privileges for VP. I'm guessing it is the latter.
If MGM canceled all promotions and comp earning privileges, he still would be allowed to play, he just wouldn't be rewarded in the same manner as others who play an equivalent coin in. With a ban from earning comps and promotional rewards, he would not be able to play at MGM on a positive win expectation basis, as they do not offer any 100% plus payout machines with expert play, at least in Vegas.
He may consider this treatment a "ban", even though he can technically play at any under 100% payout machine (there are no over 100% in MGM casinos).
Yeah, "full-pay" DDB doesn't exist at CET properties in Vegas, unfortunately, but it does exist at CET properties in other locations. Reno, Tunica, Council Bluffs, Hammond Indiana (Chicago) to name a few. It also existed at my home CET base of St. Louis until they got sold, and it still exists as part of Hollywood Casino.
CET video poker in Vegas in unfortunately a joke compared to most of their properties across the country.
In his case specifically he isn't actually banned, he just refuses to play at any of their properties.
It was because of the old Players Club program: originally you would earn 1 point for each $3 played through VP, but when they changed it to $4 played through for 1 point he said there was no value in their program for the advantage player.
I would expect that he still goes to their properties, probably gambles at other games there from time to time, but he doesn't grind VP for 12+ hours a day at their properties any more.
FYI ... Many people mistakenly refer to 9/6 DDB as "full-pay", but it really isn't, with a payback rating of 98.98%. The REAL full-pay DDB is 10/6 (100.07%), which can be found at many of the Stations and Fiesta properties.
I did put full-pay in quotes for a reason. Some machines that are designated as "full-pay" aren't always the highest paying version of the game in existence, but are still defined as "full-pay" for various reasons (likely from historical context I'm guessing). VPFree2 lists 9/6 DDB as "full-pay", even though I have played 40/10/6 DDB in Tunica before (99.96% as Mississippi forbids > 100% return) and have seen 10/6 machines in Vegas. "Full-pay" for Loose Deuces is 100.15%, but the D has the highest returning machine in the country to my knowledge, a Loose Deuces game that returns 101.6%.
But semantics aside, if you are offstrip, then yes, you should play a 10/6 DDB over 9/6 DDB.
I just read all about this in his book "Million Dollar VP". He and several other professional VP players took advantage of an error on some of MGM VP machines that gave them points at the rate of a slot machine along with other advantages he was able to add in to make the play on certain machines extremely profitable. This happened in the early 2000's when he writes he won a million or so over a six month period, then a year or so later was basically cut off along with several other players, and also at Venetian a bit later.
Maybe he got 86'd because of his public stance of refusing to tip slot attendants, except at the South Point, and the only reason he does it there is because that is where he teaches his VP classes and he needs to keep from totally pissing everyone off.
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