1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Bob Dancer's 2/26 column

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by westie, Feb 26, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. westie

    westie VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,022
    Location:
    Kensington, CT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    60
  2. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,414
    From the column:
    It wouldn't be a real Bob Dancer column without him somehow finding a way to brag about his bankroll. He has some good VP info but he's still a big d0uche.
     
  3. Jersey_Bill

    Jersey_Bill High-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2010
    Messages:
    644
    Location:
    Exit 8, New Jersey Turnpike
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    In his last column (about the mayor losing a billion on VP), he said that he is no longer welcome to play in MGM Grand. What's the story here? Can you be barred for VP play or did something else happen for them to boot him?

    JZB
     
  4. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,686
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    He took advantage of some very good offers they were giving him. They were giving him offers as if he was down large sums of money when he was really up. This happened a long time ago(early 90s I think).

    Basically he got thrown out for being an advantage player. He wasn't profitable to them, so they didn't want his play.
     
  5. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    46
    Can you actually get 86'd for VP play, or do they just cut off comp card play/offers, making it unprofitable to play? Not sure they have any 100%+ games at any level, but with promotions & comps, he may have found profitable situations.

    I remember a local who played heavy and posted here stated he was shut off from comp coupon offers for a while from Mandalay Bay, either before or after he called the Gaming commission for some free play issue.

    CET has 9/6 JOB at several casinos across America including $5 versions in Vegas. Haven't seen full pay DDB at CET. 9/6 JOB is offered at NYNY, but you cannot earn MILFe points on the machine.

    In terms of the linked article, savvy gamblers should learn the difference between EV, Theo and Actual values.

    EV - Expected odds based on current odds and wager.

    Theoretical loss rate - Theoretical loss calculation made by the casino based on wager, game and sometimes skill level. Note what casino credits for your play does not neccessarily equal your EV - the shortfall is usually in the casino's favor - (i.e. casino gives you comp credit based on 1% when your true EV = 1.5% based on your specific wagers and or skillset, when appicable)

    Actual loss rate - Actual results - short term action deviates from EV, sometimes in a big way. However, as you continue to amass play/hands, your actual will trend toward EV for your particular wager and game played, with skill level factored in certain games (BJ, VP) and wager type in others (craps - odds bets vs. hardways, blackjack or Pai Gow- bonus side bet vs. standard bet, etc.)
     
  6. Dtyst1

    Dtyst1 Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2012
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    7
    Casinos are private businesses, they can refuse your business for nearly any reason, real or imaginary.
     
  7. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,749
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    I would word it as "the casinos are on private property, they can refuse your business for nearly any reason" because some of them are public companies so it might lend to some confusion of more questions when there needn't be
     
  8. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    46
    I understand that fact, though I do not think they can refuse business on the basis of race or other traits protected under Federal law.

    My question is was he really 86'd or banned from playing VP (security would kick him out or call the cops to arrest for trespassing if found playing), or did MGM simply cancel his MILFe comp and promotional (prizes, tournaments, etc.) earning privileges for VP. I'm guessing it is the latter.

    If MGM canceled all promotions and comp earning privileges, he still would be allowed to play, he just wouldn't be rewarded in the same manner as others who play an equivalent coin in. With a ban from earning comps and promotional rewards, he would not be able to play at MGM on a positive win expectation basis, as they do not offer any 100% plus payout machines with expert play, at least in Vegas.

    He may consider this treatment a "ban", even though he can technically play at any under 100% payout machine (there are no over 100% in MGM casinos).
     
  9. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,888
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Yeah, "full-pay" DDB doesn't exist at CET properties in Vegas, unfortunately, but it does exist at CET properties in other locations. Reno, Tunica, Council Bluffs, Hammond Indiana (Chicago) to name a few. It also existed at my home CET base of St. Louis until they got sold, and it still exists as part of Hollywood Casino.

    CET video poker in Vegas in unfortunately a joke compared to most of their properties across the country.
     
  10. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,749
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    In his case specifically he isn't actually banned, he just refuses to play at any of their properties.

    It was because of the old Players Club program: originally you would earn 1 point for each $3 played through VP, but when they changed it to $4 played through for 1 point he said there was no value in their program for the advantage player.

    I would expect that he still goes to their properties, probably gambles at other games there from time to time, but he doesn't grind VP for 12+ hours a day at their properties any more.
     
  11. Buddha

    Buddha VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,470
    Location:
    Chicago 'burbs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    60
    FYI ... Many people mistakenly refer to 9/6 DDB as "full-pay", but it really isn't, with a payback rating of 98.98%. The REAL full-pay DDB is 10/6 (100.07%), which can be found at many of the Stations and Fiesta properties.
     
  12. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    9,888
    Location:
    Missouri
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    I did put full-pay in quotes for a reason. Some machines that are designated as "full-pay" aren't always the highest paying version of the game in existence, but are still defined as "full-pay" for various reasons (likely from historical context I'm guessing). VPFree2 lists 9/6 DDB as "full-pay", even though I have played 40/10/6 DDB in Tunica before (99.96% as Mississippi forbids > 100% return) and have seen 10/6 machines in Vegas. "Full-pay" for Loose Deuces is 100.15%, but the D has the highest returning machine in the country to my knowledge, a Loose Deuces game that returns 101.6%.

    But semantics aside, if you are offstrip, then yes, you should play a 10/6 DDB over 9/6 DDB.
     
  13. Tbone3336

    Tbone3336 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,442
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    I just read all about this in his book "Million Dollar VP". He and several other professional VP players took advantage of an error on some of MGM VP machines that gave them points at the rate of a slot machine along with other advantages he was able to add in to make the play on certain machines extremely profitable. This happened in the early 2000's when he writes he won a million or so over a six month period, then a year or so later was basically cut off along with several other players, and also at Venetian a bit later.
     
  14. chef

    chef Resident Buffetologist

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Messages:
    4,981
    Location:
    Illinois
    Maybe he got 86'd because of his public stance of refusing to tip slot attendants, except at the South Point, and the only reason he does it there is because that is where he teaches his VP classes and he needs to keep from totally pissing everyone off.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.