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Table Games Blackjack Tables with No "3:2" or "6:5" written?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by PSM, Aug 31, 2013.

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  1. PSM

    PSM Low-Roller

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    I'm in Vegas and walking around noticed that quite a few hotels have Blackjack tables that don't have anything written on them regarding "3:2" or "6:5" (Mirage, Caesars, etc.). What's the deal? I've never been a Blackjack player and was gonna give it a shot but have yet to see any tables for 3:2. I'm aware that most will probably be $25 tables or higher but thought I might find a $10-$15 one somewhere. Staying at Mirage for rest of trip and doing a lot of walking around. I don't really care where I have to play. Going to Red Rock Casino tomorrow, also.

    Thanks and sorry for not searching for my answer. Trying not to waste too much Vegas time!!!!! :thumbsup:
     
  2. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    I recall the Mirage having their payouts on little etched placards posted by the table minimum signs.
     
  3. jamesxnj

    jamesxnj VIP Whale

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    Every table should read the payouts on the felt above the players spots either above or below the Insurance payouts
     
  4. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    Mirage definitely lists the payout.

    Good luck in Vegas!
     
    Super Bowl Weekend for a Bachelor Party!
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    If it's not listed on the felt, OR on the table minimum/maximum signs then they are likely in violation of gaming regulation Sec. 5.012. Why it's probably not listed on the felt is: Sometimes the table is 3:2, sometimes it's 6:5. If you decide to play a table that is unclear in writing, demand a 3:2 payout on a blackjack because of the regulation listed below.

    5.012 Publication of payoffs.
    1. Except as specifically provided herein, payoff schedules or award cards applicable to every licensed game or slot machine shall be displayed at all times either on the table or machine or in a conspicuous place immediately adjacent thereto. In the case of craps, keno and faro games the
    foregoing requirement will be satisfied if published payoff schedules are maintained in a location readily accessible to players and notice of the location of such schedule is posted on or adjacent to the table. In the case of slot machines, the foregoing requirements will be satisfied if:
    (a) The player is at all times made aware that payoff schedules or award cards applicable to any game offered for play are readily accessible and will be displayed on the video display screen of the device upon the initiation of a command by the player, or
    (b) The award cards of any game offered for play are displayed at all times when the device is available for play.
    2. Payoff schedules or award cards must accurately state actual payoffs or awards applicable to the particular game or device and shall not be worded in such manner as to mislead or deceive the public. Maintenance of any misleading or deceptive matter on any payoff schedule or award card or failure on the part of a licensee to make payment in strict accordance with posted payoff schedules or award cards may be deemed an unsuitable method of operation.

    http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2957
     
  6. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    Mirage - They are very difficult to see: Just under the table limits sign on copper colored etched placard and in the shadow of the limits sign. I asked a pit boss last year what he thought of 6:5. He smiled, leaned over, covered his mouth and said "It's a f'ing ripoff!"
     
  7. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa VIP Whale

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    Yeah I sat down at a table by the poker room once - I was still relatively new to the Vegas scene and just assumed a table would be 3:2.

    Put out a $50 bet and hit blackjack...dealer pays me and I kind of stared at her, looked at my chips, looked back at her and was like "wtf"?

    She pointed to the hard to see placard under the minimum sign that said 6:5.

    I colored up and left.
     
  8. 2VegasNuts

    2VegasNuts High-Roller

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    At 3am yesterday, my drunk ass stumbled over to a BJ table with $1200 of my original $5000 left for the day. I was winning like crazy, but did not have a BJ. Around 4:20am I got a BJ with $350 bet. She paid me $420 and I told the dealer she messed up. The pit boss Enrique comes over and says, "Mr Jones, you are playing the 6/5 table for tourists, would you like to return your $2,000 profit?" I asked him where the 6/5 sign was and he pointed to a tiny little placard at the far end of the table near 3rd base (I was 1st base player). I continued to play what I call idiot BJ and I continued to win recovering all my prior evening losses until I left at 6:30am. The pit boss made good fun of me about every 15 minutes. The other players at the table also won and we all had a great time.

    That will be my first and last time playing 6/5, but luck can be in your favor at any table.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  9. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    I only play 3:2 BJ (of course), but have noticed that 6:5 (at those places that have it) isn't indicated more times than not. (For that matter, rules governing DDAS and surrender are seldom displayed either.) Regulations or not, it's always prudent to ask.

    Just wondering - if a player were to make a big stink about getting paid 6:5 in the absence of a sign, could the casino retaliate and bar the player? After all, in Nevada, casinos evidently have the right to exclude anyone for any reason!

    Other than that, I'm getting blurry-eyed this early in the morning trying to find the applicable rule posting regulation – that's one monstrous document!
     
  10. craps1

    craps1 Low-Roller

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    6:5 is still around because people still play it. I absolutely have no idea why.
     
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    You must be blurry-eyed, I already posted the applicable rule earlier in this thread!

    They could bar the player if he is being a disturbance or threat, absolutely, but a casino would be stupid to not give the player a one-time 3 to 2 payout if there is truly nothing in writing at the table. Because if he complains to the gaming commission and wins, it could cost the casino a lot more than 30% of the initial wager in question. And also, it always costs the casino his patronage if they fight this when there is nothing in writing on the table. If they pay him 3 to 2 this one-time, he probably just gets up and finds a 3 to 2 game assuming it exists there. If that happens and he is a flat bettor, they regain that 30% of a bet in about a half an hour on average. If the casino screws up, not siding with the player is just bad business.

    People new to blackjack either don't know they should be paid 3:2, or people are math stupid and may actually think 6:5 is better. Many people in Vegas are still tourists and probably never play blackjack any other time in their lives. And also people still want to play for $5/hand and the casino wants to still turn a reasonable hourly on the table.
     
  12. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

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    Sorry, I must have really been off in gaga land this morning. DUH! That's a darn good regulation to know, and I'll be sure to have a printout of that reg. on me whenever I go to casino I'm not familiar with. I'd still ask, but just in the case the dealer screws up and gives the wrong answer.

    I wonder if they have a reg. for the situation I found myself in a year or so ago. I had a $10 free bet coupon at Sam's Town that I reluctantly put down as I was about to relocate to the Orleans. (I had a hell of a hangover and wouldn't have even gone into the casino if not for the coupon expiring that day.) Yep, I got a BJ. As the dealer was sliding out three red chips, the pit boss intervened and said the coupon was good only on "even money" bets and instructed the dealer to take back a chip. (I guess that particular pit critter was new, didn't know me, or was having a bad day.) I was pretty much speechless, but didn't feel well enough to argue. Nonetheless, after seeing the less than happy look on my face, he said he'd check to be sure. Then he went over to another table and had a conversation with a dealer! (Shouldn't that have been the other way around?) He confirmed I could only get paid even money on my BJ, and I was just happy to get the heck out of there.

    I've gotten BJ's on coupons before and got paid 3:2, but I truly don't know for sure how that's supposed to work. Any guesses - it's probably in that document somewhere.

    I'm afraid it's not just the newbies who play 6:5 games, but I'd better stop before … yeah, I'll stop now!
     
  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Although NV regs are quite lengthy, they don't cover everything in that document, and I don't think it's clearly defined. But since the even money wagers only rule is on the coupon, they can rightfully only offer even money blackjack for it. Although I have heard many other casinos also offer 3 to 2 on a blackjack for these. If you do only get even money for blackjack though, you're better to use that bet at craps.
     
  14. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    Some tables don't display the payout 100% of the time. I have seen many eletronic signs that scroll through some info and the BJ payout is one of those. So one moment it might say min/max and the next the BJ payout.


    I never really cared that much about the rules a few years ago. None of them would kill me that much. Things like dealer stand/hit on 17 is something that can affect me, but just not much, so I wasn't going to spend hours looking for the 2 tables I can play.

    Nowdays I'm just looking for cards before I sit down. Rather annoying....
     
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