1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Blackjack Downtown - Other than El Cortez? (Lots of Questions)

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jimboguy, Jan 13, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Hi everyone,

    I'm a downtown fan who likes to play blackjack. I have played blackjack pretty much only at El Cortez because I like their single deck game that pays 3:2 ($5 and $10 min).

    However, sometimes the vibe at El Cortez can be rough/depressing. Although I've certainly had fun playing there too, my last couple of times there haven't been too exciting. I'm a solo traveler to Vegas, so having a social blackjack table is a bit of a perk to me. I'm a thirty-something male.

    I've taken a look at the Blackjack Survey on Wizard of Odds, but I am hoping someone could help me translate it a bit. The El Cortez single deck game, according to Wizard of Vegas, has a house edge of 0.19%.
    From what I've seen, the next best blackjack game downtown after single deck at El Cortez is a double deck game at the D (DAS, can't resplit Aces). Also, according to the survey, Downtown Grand and Four Queens, have the same rules ($10 min). The house edge of this game, according to the survey, is 0.45%

    While I understand a lower house edge (0.19%) is better for the player than 0.45%, how much better? Assuming 70 hands per hour and an average bet of $15 per hand, how much more can I theoretically expect to lose playing the 0.45% house edge game instead of the 0.19% house edge game?

    Are there many double deck blackjack tables at The D, or are the tables mostly the six deck shoes? Same question for Downtown Grand and Four Queens.
    Are the double deck games at these casinos pitch games or shoe games?

    Ultimately, will it be worth it (in terms of entertainment value combined with gambling value) to switch to playing blackjack at The D, Downtown Grand, or Four Queens, or should I stick with what I know at El Cortez?

    Thanks for the help, advice, and suggestions everyone. :wave:
     
  2. McGoo

    McGoo Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    166
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    26
    Jimbo,

    Thought I would chime in here because I prefer single and double deck downtown as well.

    I too prefer to play $5-$10 Single Deck and DD. I love playing DD at MSS, almost always a $5 min with a light hearted social table. Edge on this game is 0.64% because you cannot double down after split, BJ play 3:2.

    In my experience the DD game at the D is $25+ and located in the high limit section (I may be wrong about this). The rest of the D is 3:2 Shoe games, most likely 8 deck. The Golden Gate is mostly or all Continuous shufflers.

    I will sacrifice some edge to play BJ in a casino I enjoy. El Cortez is a great casino with great odds but the BJ game is not as fun as other places in my experience.

    My recommendation is to try the DD game at MSS, Cheers
     
  3. gambler

    gambler VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2012
    Messages:
    1,293
    Location:
    Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I'll add to what McGoo said. Keep in mind that at MSS there is no DAS but also, you can only double on 10 and 11, IIRC.

    Last I checked, Four Queens is all 6-5, except one $25 or higher table. And the dealers are grouchy.

    The D and GG all have $5-$10 limits, pay 3-2, DOA, DAS, but with a shoe or CSM. I believe DTGrand is the same.I'll leave the percentages to someone else.

    You'll be hard pressed to find a DD game with good rules like the Cortez. But for fun factor, the D and GG would probably meet your needs. 4 Queens will not. MSS maybe but their rules aren't the percentage you're looking for.
     
  4. Fishin' Coach

    Fishin' Coach Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    OHIO
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Re...

    Don't give up on the el co too soon. Myself and a group of 9 other teachers and retired football coaches and teachers from Ohio ages from 25 to 60 will be there Sat to wed... We're sure to live'n things up there at least a little bit! I'm 40 6' 3" 300lb guy with a 4" goatee and will usually be found with a white haired gentleman who looks remarkably like Santa Claus... My names Jim and his name is Gary. If you see us.. We'll you'll probably "hear us" first ;) stop by and say howdy!!!
     
  5. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Definitely not giving up, just curious about other options. The El Cortez has treated me well, but the last couple of times the vibe has been lacking.

    If I'm there on Saturday, I'll certainly listen for you. :beer:
     
  6. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Thanks, McGoo. I've played the DD game at both MSS and the Cal. No double after split is less than favorable, but perhaps I'll give MSS another try. I spend enough time at the MSS Boar's Head Bar playing VP, so moseying over to the pit may be an option if I don't want to walk down Fremont St.

    Thanks again. :wave:
     
  7. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Thanks, gambler. I appreciate the input. I figured finding even a good DD game at $10ish minimum might be tough. :peace:
     
  8. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,594
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    46
    Many people think downtown has the best odds, and for VP and Craps (@ MSS) they do, but they don't offer many good BJ games anymore (Thanks Becky).

    I'd still try the El Cortez, but if the table becomes boring or depressing, Golden Nugget typically has decent shoe games at the $10 level (DAS, RSA) and Golden Gate has 6 deck party dealers. I had a great time at the GN party pit (green chip) and they had better rules than most tables on the floor (likely for the higher denom - party tables usually have poor rules). The six deck games are better than the two deck games found downtown.

    The three Boyd casinos offer the same no DAS rules, Four Queens usually has one decent table at best. You can't resplit Aces at The D, but they also have party chick dealers if you want to change things up from the GG. My August survey does not include Downtown Grand.

    I don't play BJ as much and may mess around for a bit downtown, but for a little more serious BJ I'll head to Bellagio, Aria or MGM, MGM being the best option for those who prefer Red Chip play. I stick w/ VP and drinking downtown.

    Had Portillo's for lunch today because it was above freezing and I could make it over! Don't think TSA will let me bring dipped beef sandwiches without confiscation (unauthorized beef liquids), but I'm sure CBC will have something decent.

    :beer:
     
  9. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
  10. jasonargo

    jasonargo High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2006
    Messages:
    539
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Jimbo -

    Don't be afraid to head out from downtown for BJ. $5 DD DAS can be found at Gold Coast, Orleans, Boulder Station, AZ Charlies (both locations), & Eastside Cannery. A little to the North at Jerry's Nugget also. Sam's Town deals the downtown DD game (no DAS).

    Plaza & Las Vegas Club have had sporadic availability of $10 DD DAS games dealt from a shoe.

    I also saw the Wizard's survey info on the Grand. I was in there last trip, but we were in kind of a hurry, and for the life of me I can't recall seeing any playable low-dollar BJ. We had also been drinking a bit heavily before as well, so not necessarily a valid review.

    I play at all 3 of the Boyd places downtown despite no DAS and lousy pen where you're lucky to see a whole deck. At least at MSS they bring pale ales to the floor. The $3 6-decker at Fremont is also no DAS (!), but it's a great drunk fun table usually.

    The 4Q DD is no DAS, and usually at least $10 min. They have $10 SD but double 10 & 11 only. Usually only one table of each. The DD table tends to close early. They serve CBC amber at the Kings bar but won't serve that or Sam Adams at the tables. Weird.

    The Nugget has $25 DD avail all the time, and I believe it has DAS.

    Golden Gate 6-deckers are H17 DAS, but they kick the minimums up to $10 at night, and then only the CSMs are $5.

    I haven't played BJ in Binion's for a few years. 'Nuff said.

    The D's DD is usually $25 min now, and I don't recall if they offer DAS or not. Usually one table open.

    Maybe we can play a few hands together this weekend. Have fun & good luck!

    -

    Oh, and .0045 - .0019 = .0026 X 15 X 70 = $2.73/hour theo additional loss.

    -
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    The El-Co's DD game is, IMO, the best DD in downtown. 3:2, DAS, and about 66% pen. (they use a pre-cut notch on the discard tray for a consistent cut-point).

    The only other DD, DAS, double-any-two tables downtown are at LVC, Plaza, GG & 'theD' - (GG & 'D' are $50 min). All of the rest are 'No DAS'.

    As for the 'fun factor', I have to agree that MSS has been consistently the most fun & sociable at their DD tables. If you're gonna play a shoe game, then you want Golden Gate at night.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  12. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty native Texan; born and bred.

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,809
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    60
    Does anyone know why (if there is a reason) Boyd properties are so "dysfunctional" in their rules....Orleans and Gold Coast similar but downtown and Sam's town similar but dissimilar to O&GC......i.e., double after split or double on any two cards etc.....it would seem they would be more consistent but then I have not ever compared in person.....just curious and not meaning to hijack....
     
    1st Super Bowl DT...Panthers / Browns no doubt
    Spur of momento trip
  13. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,419
    Location:
    Pergatory
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    If you ever make it to the strip, Treasure Island has good DD games. $10 minimums, DAS, BJ pays 3-2. Their single deck games are 6-5 though.

    Aside from El Cortez, the strip is much better for blackjack than downtown, you'll just sacrifice the $5 minimums.
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    When I was playing Gold Coast last trip, I asked the pit-boss this very question.
    The answer? She had absolutely no idea.

    BTW - at all of the Boyd properties, you can indeed double on any two cards. DAS is the only thing that is property-specific.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  15. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,668
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    82
    Well - that's only partially true.

    You can also find DD 3:2 blackjack at $10 min at Plaza and LVC. And, according to the Wizard, the new DTG also has this game.

    And, the advantage to downtown is that you can walk to any 4 of these casinos in about the same amount of time it would take you to just reach the street from the TI casino. It would take you 5x longer to get the next casino offering $10 3:2 DD with DAS from TI, and that's if you take a cab!

    So - yes - there are more $10 3:2 DD games with DAS on the Strip than there are downtown. But it's a LOT harder to get from one to the other on the Strip than it is downtown.
    :beer:
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  16. RC

    RC Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    330
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I believe the answer to this is that the downtown properties had these rules before they became a part of the Boyd group and they just never for whatever reasons synced them all up.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.