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Table Games Blackjack Bankroll

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by nygambler88, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. nygambler88

    nygambler88 Tourist

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    Just curious what others buy-in with in relation to their average bet. I myself have always stuck to a rule of 30x my avg bet but was interested to see what other methods you guys use.
     
  2. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    20 to 40x. Usually 20, playing two hands, closer to 40 if playing 1.
     
  3. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    100X

    Sorry, but to play it right you'll need 100X the amount of your average bet. So on a $5 dollar table you'll need $500. On a $10 dollar table, $1000, etc.

    Why?
    To correctly work your win goal and loss limit, you'll need 50% more than you re willing to risk. Say, $250 to $500.

    This gives you a psychological edge. You will always walk with half your stake, as well as having the bankroll to play into a winning session.

    The casinos know about the fear of loss and they prey upon that phenomenon to the tune of billions per year. If you can conquer that you are on the way to having a winning session. Most average players lose a set amount and are afraid to play on, so the quit while they are down.

    Gambling runs in cycles, and the winning method takes you to a place where you are winning and eases you out of the game.

    I've written many times about how to play into your win goal, by breaking in half your profit and playing out the excess. I will admit these are not my theories but learned from many sources on gambling strategies from as many gurus as you can think of.

    Bottom line is they work,.
     
  4. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    You will need the bankroll, but you don't have to buy that many chips when you sit. If you bought in for $500 and then played $5, they'd look at you like you were nuts.
     
  5. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Yeah but just buying in for $500 will get you rated as a player. You don't have to bet it all but you will want to increase your bets as you are winning.

    Gambling is a science, and worth learning if you want to pursue it. You can at least break even with comps if you know what you are doing . Beware it is addictive.

    Some people do win. I am one of them, as I win about 48% of the time. Add in the free rooms food and beverage and I'm at least even over the Long haul.

    Trust me!
     
  6. BKCallaway83

    BKCallaway83 Tourist

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    I usually have a buy-in similar to what Mike said. I usually take about 3k just for blackjack and play two spots at 50/hand.

    It also depends on how much you press your bet. I don't press that hard so the swings aren't that big. So i don't make as much or don't lose as much.

    but enough johnnie walker black and yes, I do lose much.
     
  7. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    The number of chips you buy at the table has nothing to do with your rating. If you buy $500 and play $10 a hand you'll get the exact same comps rating as if you bought $100 and played $10 a hand. The only reason they record your buy-in is to help figure your total win/loss per session, which is not really part of your comps calculation, either. (They might consider it in some cases.) Many casinos try to keep a win/loss statement on each rated player.

    For your comps all they care about is number of hands and dollars played per hand (and which game you're playing).

    To the original question, I think buying chips at the table at just 20x your basic bet is plenty. I always buy $500 when playing $25 blackjack. If things go badly, I either leave or buy more chips.

    Your TRIP bankroll is a completely different question. For a 5-day trip I like to have about $7500 to play 20-25 hours of $25 blackjack (raising bets from time to time). But based on past history, I would have never gone bust even if I'd only brought $3000.
     
  8. fas87

    fas87 Tourist

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    I typically buy in for about 20x my average bet for a session. For a 3-night trip, I typically bring 75x to 100x my average bet for the trip.

    You can find some sample risk of ruin statistics on the Wizard of Odds website (look for Appendix 12 to his blackjack section). For example, the table shows that I have a 5% chance that I will run out of money before I play 1,000 hands if I start with a bankroll equal to 76x my average bet. The table on the Wizard's site shows many variations of the required bankroll to achieve a certain risk of ruin within a certain number of hands. Caution: these statistics are based on a fairly generous set of BJ rules, consistent with higher limit tables.
     
  9. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    In other words, you lose.
     
  10. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Thanks for talking down to us. I'm sure a couple of us know how to gamble.
     
  11. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    That's just silly. To use your numbers, if my average bet were $5 I'd buy in for $200 and if I lost $100 I'd be out of there. There would be no reason at all for me to buy in for $500. In fact, I don't even need to buy in for $200 if my loss limit is $100. I'm walking away LONG before I lose 100x my average bet.
     
  12. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    Of course it's silly. But for me, I like to buy in for more than my loss limit. Because I hate the idea of being down to the felt. Psychological, I know. But also, if I'm down to one bet before I hit my limit and I've got an 11 against a dealer 6, I'm still doubling that, even though it would put me over my planned loss.
     
  13. dodgydave

    dodgydave Tourist

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    I will buy in for typically 25 x my starting bet.
    I will only press if I'm winning, and if my stack starts melting away, I'll just reduce my bet size. Like Mike above, I don't like to be felted, so if I'm down 15-20 units I will probably colour up and go do something else.
    I always prefer to walk away with chips in my hand, even if the denomination has got smaller.
     
  14. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    :thumbsup: Yes, I agree with that. That's why I said I'd buy in for 40x even though I'm not willing to lose more than 20x (unless, like you say, you have a double down hand or something on your 20th chip). The silly part is buying in for 100x imo.
     
  15. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    No one likes to be felted, but I hate going over my loss limit far more. If I get felted it stings for a few minutes, and then I'm on to other fun and over it. What really hurts is throwing away more than you had budgeted to lose chasing your way back. And its also pretty hard to write off a session (especially if its been short) when you have chips in front of you.

    If I get the last bet double situation, I usually have some general cash in the wallet I can use for that bet, and it comes right back off the table afterwards if won.

    As for the overall question, I like having 20x the buy-in but will go with less, but I also tend to play shorter sessions.

    Its important to remember that if you're a frequent gambler, the only impact "not enough units per session" has on your long term expectation is that your gambling sessions could frequently not be as long as you wanted them to be.

    A person who buys-in daily with only two units, and some backup cash to be used only for splits/doubles (so that he doesn't have to make suboptimal plays), has the same overall expectation as a less frequent player who buys in with 100 units over the same number of hands (assuming they both play BS). Where the difference comes in is that the 100 unit guy can always play for several hours if he so desires for a given session, where the 2 unit guy could be gone in one minute in any given session.
     
  16. nygambler88

    nygambler88 Tourist

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    I just find it odd that you see so many people buy-in with such a low amount relative to their bet size. I've sat next to guys who bet 4x my avg bet and buy in for less than I do. I got cleaned out my second time playing blackjack and did a little research and math to find out it was my own fault.

    I never press and flat-bet the entire time as I play more for the enjoyment and social aspect of the game so I guess I am much more on the conservative side.

    Like one of the other posters said though, after throwing back a few my rules above have been known to change.
     
  17. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Depends

    If I'm playing a $5 or $10 table, I buy in for $100, prepared to re-buy another $100 if I lose the intitial buy-in.

    If I'm playing a $25 table, I buy in for either $200 or $300, but I will never lose more than $300 at one table (unless I get felted on a double or split...then I dig out some more cash just for that one hand).

    My trip bankroll is never more than $2000, so for me to be playing quarters, that usually means that I've already had a few winning sessions at $5 or $10.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  18. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Not to be argumentative or "Talk Down" to any of our fellow readers, however of course you will be rated as per avg bet size X time played. You can check the Wizards web site for the mathematical formula most casinos use.

    So, as you increase your bet size while you are winning then of course you would be rated as a player.

    To bet into a losing session is ludicrous, and smacks of trying to get even. Are you Clark Griswold?

    Now, I generally don't count cards , only on a loose knit basis. I'll generally count a one or two deck game, based on the cards that have come out after the shuffle. Certain casinos don't really sweat the small players, and consider them amateurs, and that (most of us) we are.

    So, no disrespect intended to those who might have taken my post out of context. The point is that you buy in with a significant amount, and yes, the pit will notate that. Then, as you are winning you bet up but not too much to attract attention.

    The reason I usually only win about 48% is by the time the point count is up I'm too drunk to count it, but I do know my basic strategy by heart, so therefore, I minimize my losses and follow a strict money management method I've learned over the years.

    It's really not that hard and soon becomes second nature.

    They say gambling is a hard way to make easy money and soon it becomes work rather than pleasure if you pursue it for a living.

    Edward Thorpe, the guy who wrote the book on card counting made his fortune in Hedge Funds, not Blackjack. Google it.

    Nuff Said!
     
  19. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    It's not ludicrous to bet into a losing session, if that's what you want to do. The first hand of your next shoe has the same odds as the first hand of the previous shoe. If you believe in luck, then sure, don't bet it. But if you believe in math, then there's absolutely no difference.
     
  20. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Well, there is a difference for that session, as pressing when you are losing eats away at the # of units you have to bet and can whipe you out sooner.

    Long term though, you're correct. there's no difference as long as the average bet is the same.
     
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